https://github.com/zalmoxisus/redux-devtools-extension/blob/...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22822655

it's also not clear how this is a replay to the above...

Regardless, yourself or another developer as the “stakeholder” in this scenario is a bit of a cop out. In the real world stakeholders aren’t technically inclined and even if they are they don’t care about this minutiae.

I think a lot of developers start off the same way. Idealistic, starry eyed recruits eager to put their knowledge to use and make a product better than they found it.

But then you realize life’s too short to bother with things like Redux. We’re not building software to last thousands of years, there’s no future archaeologists who are going to spelunk through our ancient code and be in awe at the ingenuity of our primitive minds.

We’re lucky if we’re writing software that lasts a couple quarters. Especially when you’re building front end UI, you can expect whatever you do to be completely bulldozed by whatever trend or framework comes along.

So don’t care. It’s not your job, you’ll be paid regardless. If someone wants me to care about a project, they need to pay me extra. Because caring forces that project to take up space in my mind and takes attention and focus from other things I actually want to care about, such as getting my work done and meeting objectives. Early on I used to care so much it would actually interfere with my ability to get things done in a timely manner.

And when co-workers turn around and shit on you for slowing them down, and you see they don’t care either and still get the same pay and recognition, or maybe even more in some cases, you realize there’s no point. That’s not how this business works. Don’t be a hero.

By now I’m so experienced with React I don’t need some time travel debugging tool to tell me shit, even with very complex state. I never have. If I run through an error a few times and throw some console logs I can quickly find and solve the problem 99% of the time. A valuable skill.

I tried to avoid it but your post just brought out it of me.

[1]: https://github.com/vidit-sh/redux-sentry-middleware

I work on an app that has a total of about 400 separate Redux actions across half a dozen reducers and a couple of stores. There's a lot of things that cause side effects. Being about to see what actions fired with various props is immensely useful for debugging. redux-devtools and Reactotron are immensely useful. You're right that the majority of React apps don't need to trace actions, but when you do you definitely won't think it's overrated.

I’m genuinely curious because I feel like this kind of inflation of actions/reducers in Redux is what makes it nightmarish.

The standard form is incredibly verbose, I've started to shift away from it.

[0] https://redux-toolkit.js.org/api/createAsyncThunk

[1] https://blog.isquaredsoftware.com/2020/02/blogged-answers-wh...

The company I'm currently working with is the first time I've used sagas / observables / "anything async is through side effects". I've constantly been saying "this is madness, this giant block of code, all these concepts, all this room for things to go wrong, just to do a `fetch`?". It's also the first time in a few years of using redux I've had to deal with race conditions.

Edit: Oh, and you can even `await dispatch`! All the things I've been doing in Redux for years and told I shouldn't, now being officially endorsed.

That's 76 actions just for the NFS/CIFS-as-a-service UI.

(I'm not saying this is the best way to do it, but that's what's happening right now.)

I'm not going to go in to detail on HN, but the app I work on is used to make diagrams for the legal industry and to define how they change over time. It's sort of like Visio for lawyers, with a basic animation editor that understands the underlying data. There are a lot of actions simply because it does a lot of things that can't be generalised in to higher level actions (well, they could, but it'd be messy.)

I think Redux is overrated because it is used by a lot of applications that don't need it.