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Re:Containers vs. Zones vs. Jails vs. VMs (2017) by justanotherc on Monday April 06, 2020 @06:11PM (#22798393)
You talk as if that's a bad thing.

As a developer I don't want to wade into the details of systems I'm using, I want to spend my time writing code that solves the business problems I'm tasked with solving.

If there is a system that allows me to do that by abstracting away the details I don't care about, why wouldn't I use that system?

Re:Containers vs. Zones vs. Jails vs. VMs (2017) by legulere on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @03:00AM (#22800951)
Abstractions usually only work within a boundary. If you understand the underlying implementation you know its limitations.

Abstractions help you to not think about the implementation all the time and to have your own code work in a coherent way.

Re:Containers vs. Zones vs. Jails vs. VMs (2017) by TeMPOraL on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @03:34AM (#22801118)
Abstractions are almost never self-contained enough. It's much easier to work within the bounds of an abstraction if you have at least a basic idea about the thing that's being abstracted.
Re:Containers vs. Zones vs. Jails vs. VMs (2017) by justanotherc on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @01:01PM (#22805051)
> If you understand the underlying implementation you know its limitations

Maybe in some cases, but then I could probably make a case for that being a poorly built abstraction.

All you really need to understand about an abstraction is the required inputs, and the expected output. Having knowledge about what's going on in the black box inside doesn't really serve a functional purpose IMO. This is the very purpose of abstractions. If we sat and reflect on all the abstractions we utilize every day, we would realize we can't possible have intimate knowledge of how they all work. We just don't have enough space in our brains.

I have no idea how my OS runs under the hood. I don't care as long as the inputs I provide yield the expected output. Same goes for how my phone connects me on a call, or how my car manages air/fuel ratio in order to control engine power.

Re:Containers vs. Zones vs. Jails vs. VMs (2017) by ben509 on Monday April 06, 2020 @06:52PM (#22798670)
I do want to wade into the details, so I'd put it more that I need to try many things, and by necessity I have to be a user before I can become an expert.

I know a good deal about how Docker works from having hammered at it. I'm not remotely an expert in it yet, but as I go I'm learning more details about cgroups and namespaces, and this is stuff I've been able to fit in while solving problems.

Re:Containers vs. Zones vs. Jails vs. VMs (2017) by jschwartzi on Monday April 06, 2020 @06:24PM (#22798482)
Because frequently the devil is in the details.
Re:Containers vs. Zones vs. Jails vs. VMs (2017) by bluGill on Monday April 06, 2020 @06:33PM (#22798535)
But only some of the details. I still need to ignore most of the details even while I need control of the ones that matter.

This is easier said than done.

Re:Containers vs. Zones vs. Jails vs. VMs (2017) by justanotherc on Monday April 06, 2020 @10:37PM (#22799881)
Exactly. The large project I'm working on has 100k LOC that I've personally written. However out od curiosity once I ran CLOC on the vendor folder... and it gave up after 2.5 million LOC. I could never possibly understand all the details going on in there lol.
Re:Containers vs. Zones vs. Jails vs. VMs (2017) by jschwartzi on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @12:25PM (#22804641)
The devil is in the details of the details.