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Re:What concept would improve everybody's cognitive toolkit?... by qznc on Monday April 06, 2020 @05:15PM (#22797959)
We have much bigger illusions than wrestling. Ironically, a piece of fiction made the point much clearer to me:

“All right," said Susan. "I'm not stupid. You're saying humans need... fantasies to make life bearable."

REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.

"Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little—"

YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES.

"So we can believe the big ones?"

YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.

"They're not the same at all!"

YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET—Death waved a hand. AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.

"Yes, but people have got to believe that, or what's the point—"

MY POINT EXACTLY.”

― Terry Pratchett, Hogfather

Likewise, paper money: https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Paper_Money

Re:What concept would improve everybody's cognitive toolkit?... by cmgxyz on Monday April 06, 2020 @05:52PM (#22798268)
> TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE

This has always stuck with me. I’m not well enough read to know if he borrowed it from somewhere, but I’m not sure Terry Pratchett ever wrote finer words than those. Beautifully concise and apt summary of the human condition.

Re:What concept would improve everybody's cognitive toolkit?... by dmurray on Monday April 06, 2020 @07:57PM (#22799113)
A variation of that quote is in a book by Robert Ardrey in 1961:

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Robert_Ardrey

Re:What concept would improve everybody's cognitive toolkit?... by totetsu on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @01:10AM (#22800487)
and maybe related to Nietzsche's "Man is a rope" https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/384722-man-is-a-rope-stretc...
Re:What concept would improve everybody's cognitive toolkit?... by antonvs on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @05:56PM (#22807903)
> THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY.

That's very naively materialist. Once you notice that, it becomes clear that the concepts mentioned are not "lies".

The passage may be trying to say something serious about those concepts not being universal, objective ones, but if it's intending to make a serious point it misses the mark.

But then again, it may not be intended to be taken seriously at all. Perhaps Pratchett assumed the weaknesses in this position would be obvious.

> Likewise, paper money

If someone writes an IOU to you, is that a lie? How about a check?

Re:What concept would improve everybody's cognitive toolkit?... by Zeebrommer on Wednesday April 08, 2020 @02:53AM (#22810619)
'lie' is too strong a word perhaps, but 'story', in the sense that Harari uses it in Sapiens, is exactly what it is. A fiction, but not less real.
Re:What concept would improve everybody's cognitive toolkit?... by antonvs on Thursday April 09, 2020 @12:33AM (#22819805)
That's a rather broad use of the word "fiction." It ends up classifying e.g. "Harry Potter" as having the same ontological status as "justice," which seems of dubious utility except possibly as a bit of hyperbole to sell books or blow people's minds at Ted talks.

It creates false equivalences, blurs important distinctions, and doesn't help people understand the nature of these concepts - rather, it obscures that nature.

Re:What concept would improve everybody's cognitive toolkit?... by vntx on Monday April 06, 2020 @08:22PM (#22799247)
I need to start reading Discworld.
Re:What concept would improve everybody's cognitive toolkit?... by qznc on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @01:37AM (#22800576)
Don't start with the first one (Color of magic). Pratchett became a lot better over time.

Also, stick with it through one book. I found quite a few books childish in the beginning. It is often a journey from "this is silly" over "ok, it has its own logic" to the realization "our reality is just as weird".