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Re:Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society by jcims on Sunday April 05, 2020 @01:56AM (#22784016)
I’m processing your comment because i think i agree. The problem is that ‘minimalist’ is a little squishy. It would be hard to argue that the Amish aren’t self-reliant. I’m just trying to figure out if they would be considered minimalist. They are low on consumerism, but they have sprawl. Relatively large farms with lots of animals and barns and equipment. Dunno.

In my own little vision for a self reliant future i see room for lots of stuff...buildings, equipment, many tools, small ag, etc. Definitely in line with your comment.

Re:Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society by anotheracct on Sunday April 05, 2020 @12:13PM (#22786414)
The amish absolutely are not self reliant.

They have people drive them to Costco and the court. They take buses and it is not uncommon in an Amish Community for one of them to have a phone line in a barn for emergencies.I have seen them use farm equipment that they technically shouldn't use and plenty of them just farm out the labor to someone who will use the equipment. They usually have "go to" people outside of the Amish sect that does shit for them that technically goes against their beliefs.

I have lived around Amish people my entire life. I am in a county that is famous for them. They are in no way self reliant. They are a cult that at this point, only half asses their own ideology.

Re:Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society by DubiousPusher on Sunday April 05, 2020 @02:06AM (#22784055)
Amish are definitely not minimalist. The array of tools Amish carpenters have and are skilled with is very impressive.
Re:Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society by scooble on Sunday April 05, 2020 @03:16AM (#22784258)
I wonder if minimalism is better understood as 'enough' rather than 'less'. A carpenter can have no more tools than the they need, even though that may be hundreds of tools.
Re:Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society by nicbou on Sunday April 05, 2020 @05:07AM (#22784624)
It's a contentious debate. Minimalism is a large umbrella. Some people are aiming to fit everything in a backpack, and others are just trying to watch their consumption.
Re:Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society by bambataa on Sunday April 05, 2020 @05:12AM (#22784644)
They might have many tools but they probably make them themselves or know by name the person who makes them. Out of close to raw material. (I’m assuming the Amish don’t mine and smelt their own metals). One modern power tool could replace many of those Amish tools but it brings with it so many more dependencies.
Re:Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society by frosted-flakes on Sunday April 05, 2020 @01:04PM (#22786764)
From what I understand, many Amish carpenters use plenty of modern battery-powered tools. There are different groups of Amish peoples, and some may be more conservative than others. It's not that they're against technology per se, but rather that they are very careful with introducing new things into their society that may be harmful.
Re:Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society by anotheracct on Sunday April 05, 2020 @12:18PM (#22786447)
That's not true at all. In another comment of mine I discussed this. They generally get their equipment outside of the community. They are no longer self sufficient in the sense that you think they are. They might make some shit but for sure go to Costco and stuff like that. The costco close to where I live even has a place for their horse and buggies(which should be outlawed IMO. The cruelty to horses is undeniable and the Amish don't even pay road taxes).

You have a big misconception about Amish. They are not minimalists in any sense of the word. Don't let the button thing fool you. They're just a shitty cult at this point.

Re:Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society by frosted-flakes on Sunday April 05, 2020 @01:16PM (#22786865)
What are "road taxes"? Where I'm from, highway infrastructure is funded with general taxes (property or development taxes in municipalities, or federal/provincial income and sales taxes). There are additional taxes on fuel, but that covers only a small part of roaid maintenance.

And the Amish definitely pay taxes, even for schools which they don't use. (An exception is social security in the US because they were exempted from the very start, but they can't collect it either.)

Also, how is having horses pull buggies cruelty to animals? Horses are working animals, and it's no great hardship for them to pull a buggy or a plough. They can be overworked or treated roughly, but so can any animal.

Re:Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society by samoa42 on Sunday April 05, 2020 @01:34PM (#22786962)
> how is having horses pull buggies cruelty to animals? horses are working animals

pretty sure that horses would disagree ;)