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Re:Hardware Microphone Disconnect in Mac and iPad by jki275 on Friday April 03, 2020 @01:02PM (#22771484)
Are you suggesting it wasn’t known that battery replacements were available for iPhones? I know I personally replaced several batteries over the years in iPhones, I don’t think that was a big secret. There were shops you could drop your phone off at and have anew battery put in for fifty bucks in an hour overseas at least.
Re:Hardware Microphone Disconnect in Mac and iPad by movedx on Friday April 03, 2020 @08:40PM (#22775240)
> There were shops you could drop your phone off at and have anew battery put in for fifty bucks in an hour overseas at least.

Actually I bought my iPhone 6S in Australia and had the battery replaced for free in Vienna under their battery replacement program. It was done in 45 minutes.

Re:Hardware Microphone Disconnect in Mac and iPad by mthoms on Friday April 03, 2020 @02:34PM (#22772607)
>Are you suggesting it wasn’t known that battery replacements were available for iPhones?

I'm asserting as fact that Apple retail and support employees were kept in the dark about throttling. So, even if you had Applecare, your "genius" would tell you that your phone wasn't slowing down (you were imagining it) or that the slow down was an inevitable result of ever more complex OS upgrades. The end result is that you were told nothing could be done.

So no one was told the simple truth. That poor performance was related to poor battery health and could be rectified by a simple battery replacement.

Re:Hardware Microphone Disconnect in Mac and iPad by jki275 on Friday April 03, 2020 @03:57PM (#22773377)
Are you sure about that? I thought it was pretty much common knowledge that your battery going bad would degrade performance and it was time to get a new battery.
Re:Hardware Microphone Disconnect in Mac and iPad by chipotle_coyote on Friday April 03, 2020 @04:32PM (#22773673)
What I believe mthoms is saying that the "battery management" software was the secret thing, because it was. We all have a basic idea that when your battery is going bad you should replace it, I imagine, but the software fix Apple silently pushed out arguably prolonged battery life at the expense of making the phone run slower. But if the Apple Geniuses weren't told this was happening, they wouldn't be able to say, "Oh, yeah, your phone's turned on battery management because your battery isn't doing well."
Re:Hardware Microphone Disconnect in Mac and iPad by jki275 on Friday April 03, 2020 @05:16PM (#22774027)
I get what he's asserting, I just think he's wrong.
Re:Hardware Microphone Disconnect in Mac and iPad by mthoms on Friday April 03, 2020 @05:43PM (#22774216)
The phrasing you've chosen ("degraded performance") is purposefully vague in order to move the goal posts. Please don't do that.

We're specifically talking about lower CPU clocking. Now, are you claiming to have known that Apple was throttling Phones with aging batteries before the rest of the world? Because well, that's a pretty amazing feat.

Re:Hardware Microphone Disconnect in Mac and iPad by jki275 on Saturday April 04, 2020 @04:07PM (#22781084)
No, I'm not "moving the goalposts".

The accusation is that Apple downclocked the phone in order to degrade the phone's performance and make people buy new phones.

In fact, Apple downclocked the phones so that already degraded phones could continue to function without becoming unusable.

That's all it was.

Re:Hardware Microphone Disconnect in Mac and iPad by mthoms on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @02:12PM (#22805809)
You made two very snarky comments above that implied people should have known about the throttling:

>Are you suggesting it wasn’t known that battery replacements were available for iPhones? I know I personally replaced several batteries over the years in iPhones, I don’t think that was a big secret.

>I thought it was pretty much common knowledge that your battery going bad would degrade performance and it was time to get a new battery

You're now walking that claim back it seems.

>The accusation is that Apple downclocked the phone in order to degrade the phone's performance and make people buy new phones.

No it isn't. Re-read my comments. The accusation is that Apple purposefully hid the throttling from its customers denying them of the choice to replace the battery and bring the phone back to 100%. As I said - whether this act was nefarious is not clear.

Look, you're just not being intellectually honest, nor do you seem to be carefully reading the thread so I've no more interest in debating you.

Re:Hardware Microphone Disconnect in Mac and iPad by jki275 on Thursday April 09, 2020 @09:51AM (#22822518)
No, I didn't "imply people should have known about the throttling", I said that pretending people didn't know a bad battery would cause the phone to perform badly was silly.

The exact nature of that bad performance isn't even really important. You're arguing trivialities, that people might have known exactly why their phone went bad. To most people, a phone is a black box, it works or doesn't. Apple allowed the phone to keep working even when the battery had degraded to the point where the phone would randomly crash if they did not address that problem. Apple made the choice to degrade performance in order to keep the phone in service -- that's against their bottom line (they'd have likely sold another phone if they didn't do that), and it gives the customer the ability to keep using a phone without replacing the battery even when it needs a battery replacement.

Re:Hardware Microphone Disconnect in Mac and iPad by mthoms on Friday April 10, 2020 @03:48PM (#22836688)
>You're arguing trivialities

Wait, what? I'm precisely on topic. The topic of this particular comments chain being throttling of iPhones without notifying the user [0]. It's also the topic of a several hundred million dollar class action suit to which Apple settled[1], after admitting it was a failure to not properly inform consumers[2].

You keep trying to derail it from the topic. No-one is arguing whether the throttling is a valid technological solution to a problem beyond Apple's control. It's a great solution, and it works well to this day — What's being debated is wether or not it was ethical to hide the throttling.

And no, throttling of computer devices based on battery capacity certainly was not, in any way, something to be expected. No manufacturer had ever done it before in a portable computing device (laptop, PDA, smartphone). At least to my knowledge.

Sure, it makes sense now that we understand it. But to somehow imply that it should have been anticipated or just blindly accepted is being grossly dishonest.

I've used Apple computers exclusively since 2005 and phones since around 2009. I'm a very satisfied customer. But I'm not so fanatical that I can't look at them objectively. I certainly couldn't imagine defending something that courts around the world, the vast majority of their customers, the technical press, and Apple themselves have admitted was wrong. I just can't understand the logic.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22769621 [1] https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/2/21161271/apple-settlement-... [2] https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/28/16827248/apple-iphone-ba...

Re:Hardware Microphone Disconnect in Mac and iPad by schadara on Friday April 03, 2020 @01:22PM (#22771761)
Apple didn't inform users that battery replacements would make their sluggish phones fast again.
Re:Hardware Microphone Disconnect in Mac and iPad by movedx on Friday April 03, 2020 @08:43PM (#22775262)
But they did, though? I got an email telling me my battery was part of a replacement program before this throttling "scandal" broke. I had it replaced for free in Vienna (phone was bought in Australia) in 45 minutes. I had noticed the throttling taking place but it wasn't until the email that I knew about the fault.
Re:Hardware Microphone Disconnect in Mac and iPad by mthoms on Tuesday April 07, 2020 @02:15PM (#22805855)
You were likely part of a very specific recall.

It's been established (and admitted to by Apple themselves) that the throttling was not properly explained to consumers.

Re:Hardware Microphone Disconnect in Mac and iPad by acdha on Friday April 03, 2020 @02:35PM (#22772618)
More accurately, Apple didn’t have a UI notification. This was not a secret and support people recommended it if you actually contacted them.
Re:Hardware Microphone Disconnect in Mac and iPad by mthoms on Friday April 03, 2020 @02:38PM (#22772654)
>This was not a secret and support people recommended it if you actually contacted them.

False. The retail and support staff were not informed of the throttling. See my other comment.

Re:Hardware Microphone Disconnect in Mac and iPad by acdha on Friday April 03, 2020 @06:48PM (#22774683)
True, as personally witnessed.
Re:Hardware Microphone Disconnect in Mac and iPad by mthoms on Saturday April 04, 2020 @03:10PM (#22780670)
Besides your singular anecdote, do you have any evidence that frontline staff were notified of throttling? Everything that's come out so far says otherwise. It's a key part of the class action lawsuit to which Apple agreed to settle.

It's possible that some staff deduced that replacing the battery would help, based on personal observations, but they were never advised by corporate to do this as policy. As such, the vast majority of them were not recommending battery replacements.

You must have got lucky.

Re:Hardware Microphone Disconnect in Mac and iPad by movedx on Friday April 03, 2020 @08:43PM (#22775266)
But they did, though? I got an email telling me my battery was part of a replacement program before this throttling "scandal" broke. I had it replaced for free in Vienna (phone was bought in Australia) in 45 minutes. I had noticed the throttling taking place but it wasn't until the email that I knew about the fault.
Re:Hardware Microphone Disconnect in Mac and iPad by addison-lee on Friday April 03, 2020 @01:49PM (#22772120)
It's almost as if you get ideas to improve products as time goes on. No, that can't be it.
Re:Hardware Microphone Disconnect in Mac and iPad by mthoms on Friday April 03, 2020 @02:36PM (#22772629)
So they wrote code to deal with degrading battery health while at the same time didn't know about degrading battery health?
Re:Hardware Microphone Disconnect in Mac and iPad by schadara on Friday April 03, 2020 @01:59PM (#22772225)
Not sure how neglecting to inform users of throttling is some kind of improvement.

They have an article about hardware microphone disconnects, prolonging battery life, etc. yet they neglected to write an article about hardware throttling.

It's almost as if they had a hardware problem and instead of issuing a recall, they quietly pushed a software fix. No, that can't be it.