This is exactly the point of parent comment: people are simply repeating the same narrative based on "the history" as if we are still in cold war and it is impossible to know what really happened in China, while this is no longer true.
Surely the situation is not ideal, in that you still need hours to read between lines and investigate, China must improve on this, but the virus just showed us one thing: being dismissive about anything coming out of China may lead to a global disaster. We should either try to understand, or cut ties with China.
Try to understand, precisely, what?
It's a very simple cause-and-effect.
a) Fox News
b) China
But as you ignored the last question (Answer: China is a big country, not Fox News), here's a new one for you. Which Chinese guy named Li Wenliang tried to warn people the shit was hitting the fan and then got seriously slapped down for it because reality wasn't what president Xi wanted to hear? And then died of exactly what he was trying to warn about?
As my Chinses is poor may I ask a favour of you, that you translate this https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/%E6%9D%8... for us, please.
Thank you.
I understand what you are talking about, but there was enough data public about China having trouble in January. And there was that report from secret service that was known by goverment and became public later. The situation being bad in China was not opaque or unknown. They dis not actually managed to make it much of secret.
And right now, "Chinese are lying" is used as propaganda to make Americans think that situation is quite good and defensive measures are unnecessary. It just can't possibly be that America has taken lead in infected. America ia the greatest always and in everything. It just can't be, it would be just fine to open economy and it is all hoax.
Anyway
> American doctor was fired for talking about lack of materials for doctors and nurses
Link please. Then we'll see if it's so, and if so, if there's any comparison.
> but there was enough data public about China having trouble in January
Indeed there was. I used that info to prepare BTW. And it only got out because the CCP could not suppress it totally. So "the CCP failed to suppress..." is not the same as "the CCP published...". Indeed, you said it better than I did: "They di[d] not actually managed to make it much of secret"
Wenliang had more balls and brains than the entire CCP put together. I salute the gent.
> And right now, "Chinese are lying"
Not The Chinese. Not Wenliang and those like him. The CCP and their mouthpieces.
> It just can't possibly be that America has taken lead in infected
The US fucked up monumentally and will pay the price. That much the US recognises, and all of it will do in just a very few weeks.
BTW could you translate that letter for us?
covid
> what is happening
covid
> what does all these mean
No idea, what does all these mean?
> instead of being dismissive
I didn't dismiss, I asked. Answer the question.
> claiming they are lies and propaganda
No, you just said that. I asked a question. Answer the question please, to wit, What am I being asked to understand.
China suppressed covid information because that's it's nature; deny until it can't just deny any more. Now exactly the same, downvotes against something because you just can't answer it- what's Chinese for "the leopard can't change it's spots"?
The fact is, China has always been on don't trust and verify relationship. You don't listen to what they say, but watch what they do. And China is one of the most watched country by foreign analysis and intelligence officials everywhere. If shutting down a city and then the country is less of an urgent indicator than their numbers collated together during an uncharted event, then you're focusing on the wrong thing. This is well understood by people in China policy who cultivate relationships with Chinese counterparts as part of intelligence gathering... intelligence that countries failed to act on. For example the Chinese CDC was basically modeled after and trained by the US CDC. There are many unofficial channels between Chinese and HK/Taiwan/US medical communities which is one reason why HK and Taiwan was so ahead of the curve. There's also thousands of expats in China and millions of Chinese diaspora with connections to the mainland. There's no shortage of information on a massively public crisis like this, there are only people who don't know how to look, or looked and decided to ignore what they found. And more disconcertingly, on a diplomatic level between western countries - the possibility that information isn't being shared behind the usual channels because lack of US leadership in the last few years has undermined world order.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/business/media/china-expe...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/02/washington-sla...
Of course we play it off as being "fair" and setting quotas.
> And don't tell me that anything after January was China's fault. It is not like governments around the world didn't know what happened there.
Both are possible, and both are very likely. China suppressed information to save face, and many other countries were incompetent in responding to the information they did have access to.