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Re:E-VENT: Emergency ventilator design toolbox by nabla9 on Monday March 30, 2020 @01:42PM (#22730238)
The number of people dying on ventilators is not meaningful question because patient dying from COVID-19 almost always becomes critical before dying. If there is ventilator, they get hooked into them for a some time.

The real question to ask is how many people who would survive with ventilator die without it.

Re:E-VENT: Emergency ventilator design toolbox by enchiridion on Monday March 30, 2020 @02:52PM (#22731008)
From a scientific perspective you are right. It is also important that people realize ventilators only have a moderate impact, and act accordingly.
Re:E-VENT: Emergency ventilator design toolbox by alkonaut on Monday March 30, 2020 @04:39PM (#22732073)
> because patient dying from COVID-19 almost always becomes critical before dying

Actually I read the opposite. That the patients in ICU's are younger 40-70 with the bulk in their 60's, while those dying are mainly 75-100, mostly over 80 years old.

That is: many if not most of those who die never pass the ICU. Obviously people in ICU wards die too, a significant fraction. But the age of the group that die mostly (80+) means it's mostly non-ICU patients. Doctors know a 80 year old with some comorbidity isn't going to survive being tubed. By "survive" they mean survive for X months afterwards too (This number can be e.g. 6 or 12 months to use as a guideline for survivability, to consider ICU treatment).

Re:E-VENT: Emergency ventilator design toolbox by outworlder on Monday March 30, 2020 @04:51PM (#22732175)
This is what makes discussions on this subject infuriating. Most people only have access to the absolute death numbers, and yet try to draw conclusions from them.

If it is the case, as you say, that a significant fraction of young people need to go into intensive care to have a chance to recover, that makes this pandemic much worse than most people think.

I do know that the number of hospitalizations is high (and possibly should be higher still, if hospitals were not turning away patients)

Re:E-VENT: Emergency ventilator design toolbox by IgorPartola on Monday March 30, 2020 @11:22PM (#22734668)
Then here are the numbers: https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/21173/hospitalization-icu...

COVID-19 still requires very high hospitalization rates, even among young people.

Re:E-VENT: Emergency ventilator design toolbox by quaquaqua1 on Monday March 30, 2020 @07:11PM (#22733117)
Not sure about coronavirus, but my grandfather was intubated after a heart surgery and has survived for a few years now despite flatlining on the bed and having some fingers amputated due to tissue death.

The health care system and market system are broken. More ventilators is the only solution.

The people in charge chose not to buy the correct number of ventilators because of profit.

Re:E-VENT: Emergency ventilator design toolbox by brigandish on Monday March 30, 2020 @09:46PM (#22734204)
There isn't a country in the world with enough ventilators right now, that's an awful lot of systems and not all of them are run for profit.
Re:E-VENT: Emergency ventilator design toolbox by quaquaqua1 on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:06AM (#22735724)
Then why will it only take 3 months and 2 companies to make 40,000 when a normal hospital has 5.

How can people possibly defend any system that is going to let, in their words, hundreds of thousands of people die, when x% of them could have been saved if money had been spent on equipment instead of buybacks and admin salaries.

Re:E-VENT: Emergency ventilator design toolbox by alkonaut on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @08:36AM (#22736881)
> How can people possibly defend any system

People vote for politicians who allocate funds to the healthcare systems (generally). Either people don't expect the disaster to strike, or they are more interested in the lower taxes you can have if you don't prepare for peak demand. I suspect it's a consequence of both.

Any politician who says "When I'm in power, I'll raise taxes 10% to fund preparedness for a disaster that comes every 100 years", will not see office. Short sightedness isn't the same as evil. Humans are bad at imagining worse case scenarios and good at optimizing for short term goals. This is the same in industry. Companies now suffer because they optimized for efficiency not resiliency. Where are the companies that optimized for resiliency so they now continue production becuase they had larger stocks of parts, parts sourced from multiple locations etc? The answer: They are dead because they were out competed by companies who could undercut their prices because they order all their parts from China and keep only 1 day worth of production in their parts warehouse.

Re:E-VENT: Emergency ventilator design toolbox by easygenes on Monday March 30, 2020 @04:43PM (#22732118)
Number I’ve seen is that twice as many people die without ventilators when needed.