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Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by mc32 on Thursday March 26, 2020 @03:43PM (#22697155)
If it’s any comfort few governments have shown the same amount of forethought and attention to detail.

Singapore has done well, but besides them there have been lots of missteps all over.

Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by azepoi on Thursday March 26, 2020 @04:18PM (#22697500)
South Korea, Germany and Taiwan have done well. Most other countries really mishandled it. Denial until the last minute with no preparedness even when neighbour countries were already in dire situations.
Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by joe_the_user on Thursday March 26, 2020 @07:12PM (#22698946)
South Korea, Taiwan and ... uh, China have done relatively well. They each have the virus under relative control.

I don't see Germany doing anything well except testing. IE, they haven't controlled infecting, which is increasing exponentially[1]. Germany originally had an ideal seeming death rate of only 0.2%.

But that was a rather illusory achievement that could be explained by finding all the infection but not stopping them (they're at 0.6% now, a significant increase and this will naturally continue increasing). By Tomas Pueyo's important calculation, one death implies up to 800 infections (1% death rate plus three weeks of doubling from when the patient contradicted the disease)[2]. So if you did find all those infections, you can see a very low apparent death rate but you wouldn't have reduced the actual death rate or the infection rate and you'd still be hurdling towards the situation of having so many cases your health system is overwhelmed and your death rate shoots up.

Angel Merkel said 30-70% of the country might catch the virus, which is pretty much poisonous "herd immunity" Koolaid that Boris Johnson spouted (now that fatalities have spiked in the UK, he's singing a different tune and I hope Merkel will also).

[1] https://cv19info.live/germany/ [2] https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-peop...

Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by adventured on Thursday March 26, 2020 @07:19PM (#22698995)
There's absolutely zero evidence to support that China did well.

What are their real case and death numbers? We'll never know, because they've lied about everything from day one. They have been the exact opposite of transparent about anything.

China only had ~82,000 cases, but Italy, Germany and Spain are all going to surpass that? Yeah right. Inflate China's numbers by 10x and you might be close. In late January / early February they magically changed which cases they were counting toward their official figures, intentionally excluding mild cases that tested positive. That's what produced the instant tapering you see in their case numbers from that date in time forward. It's also why their case growth graph looks so unique - bizarre - compared to everyone else that has had a bad outbreak.

Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by TeMPOraL on Thursday March 26, 2020 @07:46PM (#22699173)
> There's absolutely zero evidence to support that China did well.

There's supply chain evidence that things are going back to normal on China side. They wouldn't be able to hide all these deaths that would happen if they just told the sick people to go back to work.

Meanwhile, there's very little evidence that would suggest their numbers are lies. Sure, they weren't exactly forthcoming at the beginning - but then again, until few days ago, US government was lying even more than they did, and yet we don't assume this means today's numbers are bullshit (as opposed to being limited by still-lacking testing capability).

Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by screye on Thursday March 26, 2020 @04:33PM (#22697686)
Must mention India in some sense too.

Given the scale of difficulty, the country has moved swiftly.

It is yet to be seen if it is even possible to organize a shutdown the solve this problem, at India's scale. But, even the naysayers have acknowledged that in this case Modi made good decisions.

Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by satya71 on Thursday March 26, 2020 @05:44PM (#22698310)
Na, they're reacting too late. Given India's size and lack of healthcare infrastructure, they should have shutdown international travel and tested exhaustively early on. They let it get out of control and now are imposing a haphazard shutdown. The shutdown is needed, but there are too many reports of poor people going hungry for days.
Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by throwaway5752 on Thursday March 26, 2020 @04:03PM (#22697354)
The US has what is generally considered the worst COVID-19 response among developed nations.
Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by CraigJPerry on Thursday March 26, 2020 @05:00PM (#22697939)
I don’t think the US as a whole, NY seems to have its finger out. Testing really well too.
Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by heliodor on Thursday March 26, 2020 @05:31PM (#22698205)
Good response now but slow to pull the trigger on the lockdown. People seem to have forgotten that already! Precious days were wasted before Cuomo finally called a lockdown.
Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by throwaway32120 on Thursday March 26, 2020 @06:23PM (#22698585)
Yep. Just a week ago Cuomo was shut down the idea of shelter in place when de Blasio (who had been dragging his feet as well) was suggesting it[1]. This was a day after the Bay Area health officers announced a shelter in place order. He only relented when things really spun out of control.

The fact that people like Cuomo are now being praised for the way they handled this suggests that we aren't going to learn the lessons we need to.

[1] https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/17/politics/bill-de-blasio-andre...

Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by halfmatthalfcat on Thursday March 26, 2020 @06:13PM (#22698512)
Try winding down a city of 8 million in one day without instilling fear, panic, a run on groceries, etc. Taking three days to slowly get everyone working from home is sound especially when you're just starting to get a grip on the situation. I'm biased though, living in Queens.
Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by satya71 on Thursday March 26, 2020 @05:46PM (#22698317)
What about Bill de Blasio refused to shutdown restaurants and pubs over St Patrick's day, because "He wasn't there yet"
Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by _delirium on Thursday March 26, 2020 @05:14PM (#22698059)
NY has done more widespread testing than most states, but lost a lot of time ramping up its hospital capacity (beds, staffing, and equipment). Cuomo issued an order to do that only on Feburary 26. I could imagine not wanting to preemptively take stronger measures like turning convention centers into makeshift hospitals, but not clear why they weren't at least increasing stocks of PPE and generally getting better prepared for a possible influx of cases.
Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by vikramkr on Friday March 27, 2020 @10:02AM (#22702883)
The rate of infectivity here is also reported to be far higher than elsewhere with really fast doubling rates, and early on we had no idea how much it had already spread because of the underdiagnosis and lack of tests. I think Cuomo just had no idea it was actually that bad.
Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by adventured on Thursday March 26, 2020 @07:33PM (#22699100)
Italy and Spain have had far worse responses. Italy's mortality rate is over 10% right now, Spain's is at 7.5% and France's is at 5.7%. These are atrocious outcomes.

Several Western European nations are seeing far higher per capita case loads and death rates.

Several prominent healthcare systems across Europe have proven wildly incompetent so far, including Spain, Italy and Britain (which is barely doing any testing). The famed French healthcare system is proving barely able to handle what's going on there, thus their very high mortality rate.

Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by malandrew on Thursday March 26, 2020 @04:47PM (#22697817)
On a per capita basis, the US is at 20% of where Italy is.
Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by malandrew on Thursday March 26, 2020 @08:43PM (#22699487)
Great visualization and one is a population normalized graph:

http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/

Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by vikramkr on Friday March 27, 2020 @10:03AM (#22702887)
So like a week or two behind. Exponential growth is fast and idk how well we're doing at stopping it
Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by fzeroracer on Thursday March 26, 2020 @04:54PM (#22697886)
Italy is also

A. Doing far more testing

B. Further along the pandemic curve

Give it another week or two and you'll see how bad things are really going to be.

Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by jbay808 on Thursday March 26, 2020 @08:46PM (#22699515)
That's a few more doubling periods away.
Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by oh_sigh on Thursday March 26, 2020 @04:33PM (#22697680)
Generally considered among who? Epidemiologists? Public health officials? Anonymous commenters on message boards?
Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by res0nat0r on Thursday March 26, 2020 @05:51PM (#22698352)
I'm going with "everyone" now that the USA is #1 at something as of today: The most diagnosed cases of any country in the world, even China.
Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by something539953 on Thursday March 26, 2020 @04:40PM (#22697754)
Italy and Spain are not developed countries?
Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by kube-system on Thursday March 26, 2020 @06:22PM (#22698576)
The US is going to blow past Italy and Spain in a couple of days.
Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by Tempest1981 on Thursday March 26, 2020 @06:36PM (#22698672)
The US passed Italy (and China) today. And Spain previously. Although only for cases, not deaths.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by kube-system on Thursday March 26, 2020 @09:04PM (#22699605)
By "worst" I am assuming per-capita figures. Obviously the US has a larger population than Spain and Italy, so comparing the raw number of cases isn't a fair comparison. On a per capita basis, we're not quite up there with some of Europe yet, but we will be.

But most of the US didn't really get their act together with testing until this week. We're a little delayed both in transmission and in testing, and the US is not showing any deviance from exponential growth at the moment.

Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by yibg on Thursday March 26, 2020 @07:08PM (#22698924)
Number of deaths are delayed I assume. We'll see in a week or 2 if it catches up to Italy and Spain.
Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by adventured on Thursday March 26, 2020 @07:54PM (#22699216)
Italy has a per capita figure six times higher than the US. Spain is five times higher. Switzerland is four to five times higher. France and Germany have per capita rates about twice as high (the French figure is much higher in reality, they're not testing anywhere near as well as Germany).

Let me know when the US has six times the per capita cases of Italy, then we'll talk.

Italy currently has a death figure roughly 40 times higher per capita than the US. If you scaled it to the US population, it'd be around 50,000 dead.

Let me know when the US has a per capita death figure 40 times higher than Italy.

Of course nobody wants to look at the disaster going on in the EU. The way the EU has entirely let Italy and Spain down. How Spain is having to beg NATO for supplies because their EU friends are leaving them to fend for themselves. The way China has helped Italy more than the EU. Some more things nobody wants to talk about: the extremely high mortality rates in Italy, Spain, France; the lack of testing in Britain; the lack of basic medical supplies across Western Europe, leaving doctors in Spain and Italy to work with bare hands and without masks; the hyper infection rates among healthcare workers in Western Europe due to poor practices and lack of medical gear; the shift to leaving patients over 60 to die because they can't help them any longer, producing the terrifying death rates in Italy and Spain.

"Spanish army finds care home residents 'dead and abandoned'"

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52014023

Bloomberg: "Spanish Doctors Are Forced to Choose Who to Let Die"

http://archive.is/Caj7r

"‘We are collapsing’: Virus pummels medics in Spain and Italy"

https://apnews.com/7ec91dc45d8d7c2ea86b0a97446a303a

"Israeli doctor in Italy: We no longer help those over 60. Dr. Gai Peleg told Israeli television that in northern Italy, the orders are not to allow those over 60 access to respiratory machines."

https://www.jpost.com/International/Israeli-doctor-in-Italy-...

Bloomberg: "Europe’s Desperate Doctors Are Shielded by Trash Bags"

http://archive.is/IRwpy

Foreign Policy: "The EU Is Abandoning Italy in Its Hour of Need"

http://archive.is/LXzxB

“Old people [in Spain] have been abandoned in an astonishing way,” said Carmen Flores, head of patient rights group Defensor del Paciente.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain-...

Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by kube-system on Thursday March 26, 2020 @09:16PM (#22699675)
> Italy currently has a death figure roughly 40 times higher per capita than the US.

You're off by an order of magnitude. The US has 260/million and Italy has 1275/million. That's 4.9 times higher, not 40.

US cases are currently doubling every 4 days. New cases in Italy have dropped, and they are no longer experiencing exponential growth. If that continues, we'll catch them in about a week.

Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by lonelappde on Thursday March 26, 2020 @06:48PM (#22698779)
Even compared to China Communist Party who tried to suppress their own doctor's evidence of it and let it spread to the whole world

And Italy, where 1 in 10K have already died?

Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by DiogenesKynikos on Thursday March 26, 2020 @07:05PM (#22698902)
China let it spread to the whole world?

In some respects, China's initial response was poor. The government in Wuhan forced the doctor who was warning about the virus on social media to shut up, and it did not ban large public events quickly enough.

In other respects, China's initial response was excellent. Immediately after the first suspicious cases of pneumonia were reported by local doctors in Wuhan, the Chinese CDC sent a team to Wuhan to investigate. China alerted the WHO just two days later. It then announced the discovery of a new coronavirus about a week after alerting the WHO. It published the genetic sequence of the virus two days after that. Two weeks later, it quarantined Wuhan, a city of over 10 million people. Two weeks may seem like a long time, but compare that to how long it's taken for governments in Western countries to take similarly drastic actions.

Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by malandrew on Thursday March 26, 2020 @04:44PM (#22697792)
Singapore is tiny. It's an area 6 times the size of San Francisco with a border with passport control.
Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by save_ferris on Thursday March 26, 2020 @07:43PM (#22699159)
Sure, Singapore is small, but that’s not the main reason they’ve done so well.

Singapore experienced SARS, which also took the lives of doctors and nurses in addition to their patients. That country’s healthcare system has been stress-tested in a way that most haven’t.

Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by artificial on Thursday March 26, 2020 @07:35PM (#22699113)
It's like praising Iceland for being able to turn on a dime.
Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by wahern on Thursday March 26, 2020 @04:03PM (#22697359)
The U.S. Federal government's response is better characterized as willful incompetence bordering on maliciousness, than a misstep. NY Governor Cuomo and NYC Mayor De Blasio deserve special mention for cynically playing a game of chicken with each other, together with Trump, and the three of them with COVID-19; the losers are the poor people of NYC.

I think the San Francisco Bay Area counties did a pretty decent job (not S. Korea or Singapore, but that's a high bar) and I'm optimistic that they've significantly bent the curve (that's what I see plotting the data), but can't be very confident until after this weekend.

Re:How H-E-B planned for the pandemic by vikramkr on Friday March 27, 2020 @10:09AM (#22702929)
Cuomo's doing fine. He didn't have the data to know how bad it was because the CDC test crapped out, but once it became clear his leadership has been pretty good. No clue what deblasio is smoking though, going to the gym the day before quarantine etc. Never thought the governor would be more popular than the mayor in this state, especially governor Cuomo, but he's stepped up to the challenge