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Re:MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions... by pdonis on Friday March 20, 2020 @03:23PM (#22640704)
The problem is that "articulate, socially well-adjusted person who can communicate their values and opinions in an intelligent way and who is comfortable making connections with others" is (a) highly subjective, and (b) only a means to an end. The end is to have a productive civil society where people do not prey on other people. Unfortunately, all these highly subjective characteristics are used by people to prey on other people instead of to help with having a productive, civil society. So by themselves they can't be used as a standard. There has to be some objective criterion to distinguish people who can actually contribute to a productive civil society from people who prey on other people.
Re:MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions... by mLuby on Friday March 20, 2020 @05:37PM (#22641912)
If a university's objective is to select the applicants most likely to reflect prestige and wealth back onto it, the university is best served by picking those who can most effectively cause themselves to be selected (rather than the most academically gifted students).

Admissions essentially boils down to "impress me." (Not saying that's good for society, but it's good for the university.)

It's one of the exceptional cases where Goodhart's Law—"a targeted metric is no longer good"—doesn't hold.

Re:MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions... by adamsea on Friday March 20, 2020 @11:20PM (#22644103)
Distrusting social skills, linguistic ability, and emotional intelligence doesn't sound like a recipe for success.

It's not like there aren't plenty of engineers, scientists, math folks, i.e. those "honest", quantitative folks, who aren't also crappy or deceptive people.

Just look at Facebook! ;)

Re:MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions... by pdonis on Saturday March 21, 2020 @12:22AM (#22644425)
> Distrusting social skills, linguistic ability, and emotional intelligence doesn't sound like a recipe for success.

It's not a matter of "trusting" vs. "distrusting" them. It's a matter of what universities (and other exclusive institutions, for that matter) select for. If you select for "social skills, linguistic ability, and emotional intelligence" without also having any objective way of measuring actual productive potential, not to mention evaluating a person's actual willingness to use their talents in support of a cooperative civil society, you're going to get a lot of people who will be very good at preying on others and using the system they are gaining entrance to as a tool to that end.

> It's not like there aren't plenty of engineers, scientists, math folks, i.e. those "honest", quantitative folks, who aren't also crappy or deceptive people

Yes, that's true, but without those social skills they do a lot less damage, because they can't get very many people to interact with them.

Re:MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions... by tssva on Friday March 20, 2020 @04:52PM (#22641535)
How exactly do standardized tests identify those who will or won't prey on other people?
Re:MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions... by pdonis on Friday March 20, 2020 @06:47PM (#22642505)
They don't identify that directly. But they do identify the potential to do something productive. Obviously that can't be the only thing being used to judge people; but some objective standard like that has to be part of what is being used.

Also, regardless of what standardized tests do or don't do, judging based on "articulate, socially well-adjusted person who can communicate their values and opinions in an intelligent way and who is comfortable making connections with others" is, IMO, a very poor way of filtering out people who will prey on other people, since anyone who preys on other people has to have those skills (or at any rate be able to fake them well enough to pass a test for them) to be successful at it.

Re:MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions... by tssva on Saturday March 21, 2020 @09:01AM (#22646207)
"They don't identify that directly. But they do identify the potential to do something productive." It think your definition of what is productive might be very different than mine.

"since anyone who preys on other people has to have those skills" If you look at history you will find many without those skills that preyed on others.