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Re:The X-Windows Disaster (1994) by andyjpb on Thursday March 05, 2020 @12:40PM (#22495901)
The UNIX Haters Handbook was funny at the time but doesn't make much sense these days unless you understand all the rival hacker groups and cultures that were largely eventually unified under "Free Software" and, later, "Open Source". Even the LISPers have come in from the cold!

Much of this criticism of X was prescient for things to come. Autotools, dependency problems, modularity issues, compatibility, "DLL-hell", etc. Many of these problems don't have solutions today that are orders of magnitude better than then.

On the other hand, one thing that's really holding X back, especially on handhelds, is 'Myth: X is "Device Independent"'.

If the difference between a 75dpi screen and a 100dpi workstation screen was too much, today's "retina" displays really struggle to run a usable X. You're heavily reliant on the toolkits (Qt, GTK, etc) to scale things for you and they mostly understand about font scaling but not about widget scaling.

Lots of distributions that might want to use it, for example Maemo Leste, Ubuntu Touch or Gemian, are having to do a lot of UI work and hand-pick applications for "porting" to the screens and input devices (touch) that they want to use them on.

This means that Linux-on-the-smartphone is not yet in any position to give Android or iOS a run for it's money because it really struggles to effectively leverage its existing app ecosystem.

Even ignoring security models, X struggles to provide even a compelling visual of a vision for handheld devices.

Don't even mention Wayland: that has other economic incentives that are not yet properly aligned for widespread success (including X's app ecosystem ones).

Re:The X-Windows Disaster (1994) by jcelerier on Thursday March 05, 2020 @12:46PM (#22495975)
> If the difference between a 75dpi screen and a 100dpi workstation screen was too much, today's "retina" displays really struggle to run a usable X.

I've been running X11 on retina displays since 2014 without much of an issue. The only big offenders were chrome and firefox. Nowadays everything just works.

Re:The X-Windows Disaster (1994) by andyjpb on Thursday March 05, 2020 @03:54PM (#22498115)
I'd be interested to hear what you are using.

Obviously the web browsers are a big requirement.

...but I've had trouble with the defaults for almost everything I've tried: xterm, libreoffice, browsers. Under KDE the menus are too small by default. Under non-Gnome-or-KDE window managers or desktop environments almost everything is rendered too small.

The chances are that I can't just install an application with `apt-get` and have it do something sensible by default without a lot of fiddling and customisation.

Re:The X-Windows Disaster (1994) by jcelerier on Thursday March 05, 2020 @05:08PM (#22498883)
i3, I only set

    Xft.dpi: 144 
in my .Xresources ; here's a screenshot with GTK3, Qt4, Qt5 and raw X11 apps : https://i.imgur.com/VfWisJ7.png
Re:The X-Windows Disaster (1994) by int_19h on Thursday March 05, 2020 @07:40PM (#22500040)
This forces fonts to scale, but what about bitmaps? They will scale if the increased text size causes the widget to grow (and also affect parent widgets in this manner). But pure icons aren't scaled - indeed, on your screenshot, there are some icons that are noticeably smaller than they should be proportional to the text.
Re:The X-Windows Disaster (1994) by andyjpb on Thursday March 05, 2020 @05:48PM (#22499185)
Thanks!

I really appreciate you taking the time.

Re:The X-Windows Disaster (1994) by jcelerier on Thursday March 05, 2020 @06:08PM (#22499354)
if you look at the date in the calendar, it's a time I took a good 6 months ago haha
Re:The X-Windows Disaster (1994) by fsh on Thursday March 05, 2020 @12:52PM (#22496041)
It works if you have more or less the same pixel density across all screens. As soon as you mix very different ones, X becomes essentially unusable. Microsoft and Apple have solved that issue years ago.
Re:The X-Windows Disaster (1994) by p_l on Thursday March 05, 2020 @01:06PM (#22496196)
It would be solvable with compositing XServer, like Xsgi.

Unfortunatelyh X.Org is based on the lowest-common denominator code, and nobody dared to make a redesign that would really split from the X.Org mission of "providing a code dump for vendors to start working"

Re:The X-Windows Disaster (1994) by tinus_hn on Thursday March 05, 2020 @02:42PM (#22497310)
Microsoft for certain is nowhere near solving this.
Re:The X-Windows Disaster (1994) by fsh on Thursday March 05, 2020 @03:48PM (#22498042)
Legacy applications are somewhat blurry when moved from high-dpi to low-dpi, but anything modern works perfectly well. In my experience, X with current gnome or KDE is completely unusable in the same scenario. Either everything is huge on the low-dpi screen, or tiny on the high-dpi screen.
Re:The X-Windows Disaster (1994) by Izkata on Thursday March 05, 2020 @08:07PM (#22500184)
There is a third option: xrandr lets you choose different resolutions per-screen. Nothing ends up too large or too small, you just don't get the benefit of the high-dpi screen.
Re:The X-Windows Disaster (1994) by fsh on Thursday March 05, 2020 @09:09PM (#22500440)
This makes it completely pointless to even have a high-dpi screen. I think it is a pretty common use-case to have a new 4K monitor together with older FHD ones, or a high-dpi laptop with a low-dpi external screen. X really shows its age in relying on everything having roughly the same pixel density.
Re:The X-Windows Disaster (1994) by Izkata on Thursday March 05, 2020 @09:21PM (#22500493)
Not completely; I do this while docked and the laptop screen is further away, when high-dpi doesn't matter as much, and go full-res when mobile.

> or a high-dpi laptop with a low-dpi external screen

Yep, that's where I am right now, which is why I wanted to mention the third option - our IT support people upgrading everyone's laptops didn't even know this could be done.

Re:The X-Windows Disaster (1994) by tinus_hn on Friday March 06, 2020 @04:12AM (#22502094)
Legacy applications like Microsoft Outlook