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Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by animalnewbie on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @10:14PM (#22430072)
To be fair, using gsuite is only for hn hipsters. Anybody reasonable uses MS office. And please don't even tell me Google is open. There is no company on Earth which has more lockdown than Google.

When I was an intern at Microsoft in 2008 summers, they already had fully functional web based office which was a decade ahead of what was at Google at that time. Google is good only at pr and that's what they use their oss and surrounding efforts for

Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by an_outsider on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @10:22PM (#22430122)
To quote George Bernard Shaw: “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”

Besides, there was a time when the supposedly reasonable thing to do was to use Internet Explorer. I am glad the unreasonable people have consigned it to the waste bin, which is exactly where it belongs.

Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by RcouF1uZ4gsC on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @10:49PM (#22430266)
That quote is very illogical. It tries to create a dichotomy where it doesn't really exist. Pretty much everyone tries to adapt the world to themselves (see the use of fire, clothing, air conditioning, fans, etc to try to adapt climate). Also, pretty much everyone adapts themselves to the world (realizing that gravity means you can't jump off of cliffs with no parachute, that you need to eat, that you need oxygen, etc). Progress depends on finding out the right balance of what can be adapted to you, and what you need to adapt to. Finding that balance requires reason. Thus all progress is dependent on the reasonable person.
Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by jiggawatts on Thursday February 27, 2020 @02:17AM (#22431359)
That quote is so spot on that I'm going to get it printed on a mug.

Lets call the adaptive people "Alice", like in cryptography, and use one of your examples at random: Air conditioning.

A hundred years ago, if it was too hot Alice just shrugged and didn't do anything about it. She just accepted that "It Is What It Is." Around the turn of the century, one guy, named Willis H. Carrier, decided "enough is enough, I'm going to fix this" and invented modern electric air conditioning machines. These days Alice accepts the new state of things: you can buy air conditioners, and once purchased, you can turn them on.

But lets be honest: If Alice had to use a building without air conditioning, or broken air conditioning, there's a snowball's chance in hell that she'll actually do anything about it, despite the ready availability of such devices and specialised tradespeople to fix them.

I've regularly visit a government office where 200 people have sat sweating for three years because nobody lifted a finger to I dunno... maybe see what's wrong with the aircon.

This observation exactly matches my experience of the world.

I'd love to live in your world where most people go out of their way to improve the status quo in novel ways. It would be... magical.

Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by steve_gh on Thursday February 27, 2020 @03:35AM (#22431652)
Hi, I'm Alicia from the Veneto (Venice if you like). I'd like to point out that we have been living in buildings that don't need air conditioning for 800 years, because our venacular architecture is designed to keep us warm in winter, yet cool in summer.
Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by Fnoord on Thursday February 27, 2020 @07:40AM (#22432692)
Do you have more info about this architecture? Could it be applied world-wide? Ie. think Japan needs architecture against earthquakes, The Netherlands needs to take floods into account, etc.
Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by Fradow on Thursday February 27, 2020 @09:02AM (#22433280)
Not an expert on the subjet, but what I saw is this: old houses and churches (400+ years) with big stone walls tend to be rather cool in summer (my parents house ground floor always stay under 25°C when properly used, even with temperatures reaching 40°C outside) and have little temperature fluctuation overall (a piano, which is very sensitive to that and need yearly tuning in most places, can stay tuned for 10 years without intervention). I suspect the biggest factor is insulation due to having having a lot of mass that doesn't easily change temperature, but again I'm not an expert.

Incidentally, you cannot have it all: this architecture is not cheap, not fast, and isn't designed to withstand earthquakes or floods. But you'll never need air conditionning.

Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by Fnoord on Thursday February 27, 2020 @09:26AM (#22433506)
I don't know, the need to air conditioning is kinda relative anyway, and it creates a lot of Co2 as well, thereby contributing to the global warming problem.

A few years ago I've been in an old monastery, almost daily, in both summer and winter. The summer was good, albeit with a window open. Not as good as airco, but good.

However the gas costs in winter were insane, from what I heard it was in the hundreds of thousands of EUR.

Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by jmnicolas on Thursday February 27, 2020 @04:12AM (#22431807)
AFAIK air con was discovered by building a machine to make air dryer so that photo rolls wouldn't spoil.

The fact that it emitted cool air was a side bonus in summer.

Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by RcouF1uZ4gsC on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:44PM (#22435632)
> That quote is so spot on that I'm going to get it printed on a mug.

There are other issues with the quote. Look at where and when George Bernard Shaw lived (1856 - 1950) in the United Kingdom. The elan of the era that Shaw grew up in Britain was all about "taming" nature and "civilizing" the benighted brown people. This was the era where people went to areas that had previously been jungles and tried to have manicured British lawns. This was also the era where Great Britain tried to impose the British way of life over civilizations that were thousands of years older than it. In many ways, our world is still recovering from the effects of the "unreasonable men" that George Bernard Shaw talks about.

Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by tomohawk on Thursday February 27, 2020 @04:54AM (#22431989)
The point of the quote is to make people think before dismissing someone as being unreasonable. A person perceived as unreasonable may be the very person who is going against the grain, which is generally what you have to do to make progress.
Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by ahasani on Thursday February 27, 2020 @04:41AM (#22431947)
I like how you use gravity as an example. Using the quote logic, Apollo project comes to my mind ;-)
Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by jshevek on Thursday February 27, 2020 @07:49PM (#22439578)
Concise aphorisms that encapsulate wisdom often trade comprehensive nuance for brevity. It is up to the reader to look beyond the literal words for the value in the aphorism. My favorite example is the golden rule, which invites you to consider other people's experiences and perspectives, to generously value their experience on par with how you value your own, and treat them accordingly. A literal and simplistic application of the golden rule, though, would often be a terrible idea as it ignores critical differences in our wants, values, life circumstances, and abilities.
Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by Jonnax on Thursday February 27, 2020 @01:38AM (#22431146)
Right......

Google Docs had real time collaborative editing years before Microsoft.

Word online was a piece of crap for years. A decade? This is crazy talk. It's like how people call Microsoft teams good when using it is like loading pages in a Internet Explorer 6 app.

Who cares what you saw as an intern? Did they not release it because it was too good for the public?

Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by rajangdavis on Thursday February 27, 2020 @02:40AM (#22431444)
It's funny you say this because I tried using Excel for basic fitness/nutrition tracking and it wouldn't let me because my Windows 10 license was having issues with Office.

I opened up Google Sheets and haven't looked back. I can update any spreadsheet from my phone and it's backed up on my Google Drives account. Would have given Microsoft a chance had they not been so particular about who can use their software.

I've used Excel for over a decade and am baffled by how restrictive the licensing has become.

Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by karatestomp on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @10:15PM (#22430085)
> To be fair, using gsuite is only for hn hipsters. Anybody reasonable uses MS office.

Know many teachers?

Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by decebalus1 on Thursday February 27, 2020 @12:46AM (#22430870)
wrong bubble, mate. Anyway, aside from the generalizations and name-calling, I kind of agree with you, as someone who used both MS Office and GSuite in a business environment. Probably for the large majority of basic usage, there is no difference but for the type (and size) of stuff I was sometimes forced to deal with, GSuite was severely lacking, leading to frequent frustration and having to do meta-work in order to do my actual work.
Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by akeck on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @10:16PM (#22430091)
Most students in my state use gsuite.
Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by animalnewbie on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @11:03PM (#22430333)
Fine.i should have said Lowe information users.
Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by cosmodisk on Thursday February 27, 2020 @01:47AM (#22431195)
Not sure why you got downvoted so much, however I agree with the notion that entire Gsuite is a toy for kids to play. Try doing something similar and immediately start looking around thinking: where's my Excel?
Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by tluyben2 on Thursday February 27, 2020 @02:33AM (#22431423)
Depends on what you are doing right? Most people use spreadsheets for lists and simple sum() type of things; sheets works fine for that and is convenient. Same for the other gsuite stuff.

Those sweeping statements never work; hordes of young people or ‘new computer users’ (people in poorer countries who can now afford tablets and low end laptops etc) never touched MS Office and won’t be thinking ‘where is my Excel?’ only for that reason and just complete their work in sheets.

These are often people doing production work and not kids who are playing.

Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by C1sc0cat on Thursday February 27, 2020 @06:47AM (#22432458)
Depends I have seen young supposedly "digital natives" use lesser tools like the google tools and create a complete Charlie Foxtrots

Normally they have zero idea about professional project work the concept of a version controlled document is something they have never heard off

And we are talking Major Brands and Major agencies here

Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by adgasf on Thursday February 27, 2020 @07:20AM (#22432597)
Google Docs solves the 95% case of version-control simply by bringing everyone to the head of master at all times.
Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by lrem on Thursday February 27, 2020 @03:30PM (#22437448)
And further 3% by having a linear revision history. With some luck it will even render diffs correctly.

Disclaimer: I work at Google and hate docs. But acknowledge the thing works ok for its intended user.

Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by DailyHN on Thursday February 27, 2020 @07:02AM (#22432529)
Does excel version control come anywhere near sheets history feature?
Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by C1sc0cat on Thursday February 27, 2020 @07:09AM (#22432554)
The entire concept of version control is something that whooshes by them 50,00ft

I was talking about having documents in source control vitally important when you may have ,multiple teams in several countries

Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by DailyHN on Thursday February 27, 2020 @07:24AM (#22432617)
> Google Docs solves the 95% case of version-control simply by bringing everyone to the head of master at all times.
Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by Gowan29 on Thursday February 27, 2020 @06:09AM (#22432298)
Agreed. As a longterm users of both Excel and Google sheets, for simple tasks G-sheets is enough (and probably better for sharing). But any complex modelling should be done in Excel - it has far superior performance, short-cut keys, and analytical options. Being able to see the calculations easily for non-technical people is also a big advantage over other analytical products like Jupyter notebooks (e.g. Python / r) or SAS. Of course for really big data / stats modelling you need to use SAS/notebooks/stata (not a fan of the last one). Horses for Courses.
Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by Certhas on Thursday February 27, 2020 @05:49AM (#22432223)
Collaborative editing of large, complex documents involving dozens of domain experts.

The collaborative features of GSuite are best in industry, some other features are so - so. I know what expert Excel users can do with it, and it's truly impressive in its domain. But if I need to do that type of stuff I reach for Python typically.

Re:Oracle Reveals Funding of Dark Money Group Fighting Big Tech by raxxorrax on Thursday February 27, 2020 @06:19AM (#22432327)
No serious engineer I ever met used Google docs for extended calculations. Although there are curious difference in software use depending on your location.