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Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by AlexandrB on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @02:45PM (#22426538)
This quote from Zuckerberg is something else:

> “We don’t view your experience with the product as a single-player game,” he says. Yes, in the short run, some users might benefit more than others from PYMK friending. But, he contends, all users will benefit if everyone they know winds up on Facebook. We should think of PYMK as kind of a “community tax policy,” he says. Or a redistribution of wealth. “If you’re ramped up and having a good life, then you’re going to pay a little bit more in order to make sure that everyone else in the community can get ramped up. I actually think that that approach to building a community is part of why [we have] succeeded and is modeled in a lot of aspects of our society.”

This attitude of "we know what's good for you" is apparent in more and more modern tech products. I find it pretty gross, especially when applied personal data. It's also a convenient after-the-fact moral justification for decisions that improve the bottom line of the company at the expense of its users.

Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by Seenso on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @04:17PM (#22427424)
> This attitude of "we know what's good for you" is apparent in more and more modern tech products. I find it pretty gross...

It's even grosser than that. The attitude here is really "we did what was good for us, but we think you're dumb enough to be convinced we did it because it was good for you."

Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by ciil on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @04:39PM (#22427637)
I think at least some engineers genuinely believe they're doing what's best for the users and that it just so happens to also be either the best for their personal bottom line or the easiest route to go with their product.
Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by ahartmetz on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @05:28PM (#22428113)
As Richard Feynman said: "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself – and you are the easiest person to fool."

(To write something slightly more original than the "will not understand if livelihood depends on it" quote)

Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by choward on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @05:57PM (#22428379)
If you pay people enough they can easily be brainwashed into believing what they are doing is right.
Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by raxxorrax on Thursday February 27, 2020 @03:48AM (#22431710)
Also, company cultures get trimmed towards it. "Googlers" are one example. I don't think employees call themselves Facebookers, since that sounds like client for prostitution, but they probably have something else.
Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by deminature on Thursday February 27, 2020 @07:33PM (#22439509)
It's possible some really drink the kool-aid, but most are just compensated too well to care. The only companies that will try to compete with Facebook on pay are financial institutions like Citadel.
Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by rhizome on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @05:39PM (#22428226)
In my experience engineers don't care a whit about users except as a means of revenue, or more specifically as gasoline for the company engine.
Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by Kaze404 on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @03:26PM (#22426939)
I know this might be off topic but a billionaire making a comparison to wealth redistribution almost reads like a parody to me.
Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by reaperducer on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @03:34PM (#22427021)
The same billionaire who spends tens of millions of dollars bulldozing houses around his in order to increase his privacy,† then tells the commoners that wanting privacy isn't normal.††

† https://www.sfgate.com/tech/article/Zuckerberg-to-raze-4-hou...

†† https://www.huffpost.com/entry/facebooks-zuckerberg-the_n_41...

Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by mrlala on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @03:49PM (#22427173)
Physical privacy vs virtual privacy are two very different things, so it's disingenuous to pretend they are exactly the same.
Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by solotronics on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @04:32PM (#22427587)
He tapes over his camera on his laptop because he doesn't trust it. I do too and don't think this is odd behavior. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/22/mark-zuck...
Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by CobrastanJorji on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @06:26PM (#22428630)
While I understand the rank hypocrisy here, tech billionaires have a slightly different risk calculation than your average Joe. For example, Jeff Bezos's iPhone was hacked by a nation state using zero day exploits of video playback, delivered via a person message from its head of state. People like Bezos and Zuckerberg are on the wrong end of James Mickens's "Mossad or not-Mossad" threat model and should be taking different precautions than the average person.
Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by lonelappde on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @07:32PM (#22429120)
The people's whose weddings got bombed by drones, or who get thrown in jail for having the same skin color and being in the same city block as an alleged perpetrator, may see it differently from you.
Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by ben_w on Thursday February 27, 2020 @04:00AM (#22431766)
There is indeed a lot wrong in this world.

What you describe is an additional problem. A normal person targeted by a blackmailer over their sexual history would be a closer model, although even then it would still not be close to the level of a state sponsored attack on you personally — that can include combining the drones with accurate information rather than whatever led to them hitting weddings, or it could be as mild as Van Eck phreaking to find what you’re looking/who you’re talking to at no matter how well you encrypt the connection.

Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by visarga on Thursday February 27, 2020 @11:47AM (#22434925)
Apparently being Zuck means you need to have an insane level of protection. But regular people also have things to lose when their privacy is thrown out the toilet. Thanks to z.
Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by ben_w on Friday February 28, 2020 @06:16AM (#22442002)
Yes, I absolutely agree. Worse, most people don’t grok what computers can do, so they are unaware of how much they have lost until this bites them.

Oh for the innocent bygone days of around 15 years ago.

Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by mrlala on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @04:41PM (#22427661)
That is physical privacy.. it's so someone can't SEE YOU. Not track your online activity.
Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by visarga on Thursday February 27, 2020 @11:52AM (#22434988)
Lack of privacy in online activities can be even more damaging today.
Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by rhizome on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @05:32PM (#22428158)
I don't understand your point, that they're "different?" Well no shit.
Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by solotronics on Thursday February 27, 2020 @04:00PM (#22437810)
There is no difference.
Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by whymauri on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @04:21PM (#22427471)
The impact that virtual privacy can have on lives is quickly approaching the impact that physical privacy can have. Further, part of the attack surface on physical privacy is virtual privacy, anyways.
Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by wpietri on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @04:21PM (#22427476)
Nobody said they were exactly identical. If you're going to argue, please argue with what people actually say.
Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by visarga on Thursday February 27, 2020 @11:43AM (#22434881)
It's not a matter of being exactly the same thing or not. The double standard is glaring.
Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by jariel on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @05:43PM (#22428262)
That's bad, but the worst part to me is the total confluence of both the legitimacy and wellbeing he makes with his own product.

'Using Facebook Is A Kind Of Wealth' is what he says basically.

'The whole world benefits so much when they use my product'

This is Trumpian level of delusion.

'It's important that every American gets a chance to stay at home of my resorts. They're so nice! So I'm going to offer a government-backed tax rebate so that everyone can come and stay. Studies have shown people who stay at resorts are in better health, more relaxed. These tax rebates are Good For America'.

Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by mc32 on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @03:58PM (#22427248)
I’m not sure id hi as far as qualifying PYMK as an invasion of privacy, but there are common situations where you DO NOT want to connect with others or others you know/knew connect with you.

Exes, Stalkers, People who can’t let go, Friends who are bad influences, etc...

Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by brlewis on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @05:59PM (#22428395)
Suppose A has contacts B and C. If A chooses to share contacts with Facebook, and Facebook suggests B and C to A, I can see why you'd say that's not an invasion of privacy. If Facebook suggests A to C, that's arguably an invasion of privacy. If Facebook suggests B and C to each other, that's unarguably an invasion of privacy.
Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by lmm on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @10:17PM (#22430096)
> If Facebook suggests B and C to each other, that's unarguably an invasion of privacy.

How so?

Alice tells me she knows Bob and Charlie. I mention Charlie to Bob - completely normal human thing to do. Maybe I think they're in the same circle but I've forgotten exactly why or how I found that out - completely normal human memory behaviour. Where's the invasion of privacy?

Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by brlewis on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @11:43PM (#22430530)
>Where's the invasion of privacy?

In both cases.

Yours is understandable and forgivable. Charlie's privacy may have been violated, but it was a simple mistake.

But suppose you say to Alice, "Tell me all the people you know. I'll tell you which ones I know too." If you then write down that list and systematically start telling them about each other and that they have Alice as a mutual friend, then you're a privacy-invading jerk, and Alice was wrong to trust you.

Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by visarga on Thursday February 27, 2020 @11:56AM (#22435034)
Yet you can't mention all the Charile's to Bobs on the planet like FB.
Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by choward on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @05:52PM (#22428329)
> “If you’re ramped up and having a good life, then you’re going to pay a little bit more in order to make sure that everyone else in the community can get ramped up

> This attitude of "we know what's good for you" is apparent in more and more modern tech products.

The attitude that this also demonstrates is "our loyal customers are locked in, so it's time to screw them over to try to make more money".

Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by onetimemanytime on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @03:52PM (#22427205)
I know I know...but it worked. "Everyone" is on FB and they are worth a gazillion dollars.
Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by gretch on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @04:18PM (#22427433)
It goes farther than that - the comment parent author doesn't even realize they are exhibiting the same behavior:

"This attitude of "we know what's good for you" is apparent in more and more modern tech products"

Billions of people used PYMK and are generally happy with it and Facebook in general. Who are you to tell them it's a bad thing?

If FB is so bad why don't more people leave? Lots of people on HN leave FB and I respect that choice - and lots don't and enjoy using FB with it's pros and cons. What's wrong with that?

Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by zaat on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @05:30PM (#22428133)
> Billions of people used PYMK and are generally happy with it and Facebook in general.

You might be right, but that isn't necessarily so. I'm on Facebook, I hate many of it's features, the product design decisions and I think they are hostile and predatory. Wherever a knob was made available I changed it from the default to the more private setting. But I'm still on Facebook because I have no other option for effective communication with my globally distributed family and with the local tech community.

In short, I hate PYMK and many many other things, and generally I'm not happy at all with Facebook, but you counted me along the "Billions of people" because I'm (almost) daily active on the platform.

I believe you have no idea what portion of the users is happy with the platform, what portion is unaware of the privacy implication and what portion is unhappy about the platform's privacy but, as accurately put by the Zuck himself, pay the necessary tax.

Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by ninth_ant on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @07:46PM (#22429217)
> But I'm still on Facebook because I have no other option for effective communication with my globally distributed family and with the local tech community.

But this speaks directly to the crux of this issue mentioned in the article that you take issue with.

Growth team tactics got people on the site and kept them engaged, and having a large and mostly comprehensive network makes it valuable to users. So when you find it valuable that your family and community is there, well that’s the point.

Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by zaat on Thursday February 27, 2020 @05:12AM (#22432061)
Nope, I found my family directly and the community is in the groups. I believe I never used the People You May know box myself. I may have been added as a friend by someone using the feature, but probably not anyone that I actually care about being connected to.
Re:‘People You May Know’ helped Facebook grow exponentially by michaelborromeo on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @08:40PM (#22429540)
Underneath it’s “what’s good for facebook” but on the surface they have to paint it as “what is good for you.”

Or they could just say nothing.

Which is better?