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Re:Mozilla’s DNS over HTTPs by throw0101a on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @09:23AM (#22413412)
> If your "security controls" depend upon other people volunteering to use some protocol then those weren't "security controls" they were more like "guidelines".

It's not about volunteering. Previously I could block udp/53 and tcp/53 and be confident of the fact that no DNS look ups would happen. (DNS queries over other ports could be caught doing packet sniffing.)

Now I have to worry about DNS queries going out via HTTPS. So if I want to monitor my network for malware contacting a C&C server I have to snoop HTTPS. Which means I now have to install a web proxy and perhaps do MITM.

Previously I could 'simply' monitor DNS look ups to see if anything was trying to connect to nefarious domains.

DoH has reduced visibility into my own network.

Re:Mozilla’s DNS over HTTPs by nybble41 on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @01:11PM (#22415550)
> Previously I could block udp/53 and tcp/53 and be confident of the fact that no DNS look ups would happen. ... Now I have to worry about DNS queries going out via HTTPS.

That confidence would have been misplaced. DoH offers a standardized protocol, but it's not exactly difficult to put together a one-off interface for performing occasional remote DNS lookups over HTTPS. One could even use existing HTTPS sites for the purpose (e.g. https://ping.eu/nslookup/).

Re:Mozilla’s DNS over HTTPs by afiori on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @09:44AM (#22413565)
That is a good point, but it is also mostly independent from DoH, a VPN with an hardcoded IP would have worked in the same way (if you look into elusive VPNs you can also find some that work by injecting traffic into padding of another connection).

The only difference is if you are worrying about the traffic leaving your own browser and in that case you can just not enable DoH

Re:Mozilla’s DNS over HTTPs by throw0101a on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @11:16AM (#22414356)
My passive network sniffers may throw red flags on suspicious traffic which may end up being VPN. By disguising non-web traffic over the (until now) web-mostly HTTPS, it makes the job of someone who wants to be a responsible netizen and monitor their network that much harder.
Re:Mozilla’s DNS over HTTPs by afiori on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @05:54PM (#22418416)
I agree if the point is that this might increase the reach of such technologies. But if you are thinking about traffic coming from sources different than your browser then why would they be unable to open a connection on hardcoded IPs?

Also VPN sniffing can be arbitrarily hard, for example if I remember correctly tools like https://www.softether.org/ are designed to work around the Chinese internet firewall.

From my point of view DoH add nothing outside the browser.