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Re:The Zen of Go by throwaway894345 on Monday February 24, 2020 @01:16PM (#22406639)
> I can’t for the world understand what it means...

It means Go performs well on real world projects. People feel productive, the language, tooling, and ecosystem get out of the way. You (and most PLT advocates I've encountered) seem to be evaluating languages on their inputs/features (presumably because you believe axiomatically that certain features--e.g., type systems--have a huge effect on the success or failure of a given software project) while the "useful for real world problems" view is about evaluating languages on their outputs. The latter view is harder to measure objectively, but it accounts for everything (e.g., syntax, type system, tooling, performance, ecosystem, etc) in correct proportion (no axiomatic beliefs).

Many PLT proponents generally seem to struggle with the notion that languages are successful when their model predicts that they shouldn't be. For example, many PLT proponents believe type systems strongly predict the success of a language, yet languages with very sophisticated type systems which are much admired by PLT proponents do poorly in the real world and languages with very flat-footed type systems (e.g., Go) do relatively well.

Either the qualitative data about these languages are wrong (e.g., contrary to the qualitative data, Haskell actually makes for more productive software development on balance than Go), or these PLT proponents' whitebox model is wrong. My money is on the qualitative data.

Re:The Zen of Go by cannabis_sam on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @11:53PM (#22420380)
> You (and most PLT advocates I've encountered) seem to be evaluating languages on their inputs/features (presumably because you believe axiomatically that certain features--e.g., type systems--have a huge effect on the success or failure of a given software project) while the "useful for real world problems" view is about evaluating languages on their outputs.

I don’t, so please keep you assumptions to yourself and don’t put words to in my mouth.

> in correct proportion (no axiomatic beliefs).

What is this based on?

Re:The Zen of Go by throwaway894345 on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @10:07AM (#22423547)
> I don’t, so please keep you assumptions to yourself and don’t put words to in my mouth.

I'm hardly putting words in your mouth. You were expressing more-or-less exactly this sentiment in your previous post.

> What is this based on?

It follows by definition of output-based or blackbox evaluation. Evaluating the output of a system implies that you are evaluating inputs in proportion to their contribution to the output.

Re:The Zen of Go by cannabis_sam on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @07:47AM (#22483263)
> I'm hardly putting words in your mouth. You were expressing more-or-less exactly this sentiment in your previous post.

Trust me, I wasn’t.

> It follows by definition of output-based or blackbox evaluation. Evaluating the output of a system implies that you are evaluating inputs in proportion to their contribution to the output.

I like this! It’s like pure functions/total programming, only not rigorously defined in the slightest.

It’s not an answer to my question though, HOW do you know that the results of your output/blackbox testing is correct?