News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Safari will no longer trust certs valid for more than 13 ... by jchw on Sunday February 23, 2020 @05:21PM (#22399958)
> Expect to eventually be unable to host a visitable or indexable website without relying on at least one third party service in the near future.

I mean... How do you expect to have a valid, trusted TLS certificate without a third party? Nobody says it has to be Lets Encrypt or Cloudflare or Amazon load balancers or ... so forth. Some certificate authorities even already have APIs....

Re:Safari will no longer trust certs valid for more than 13 ... by mikedilger on Sunday February 23, 2020 @07:00PM (#22400478)
No third party is strictly necessary.

You have to know what the servers public key is in a reliable way. That doesn't necessarily mean a third party has to be involved. Maybe you call them on the phone and check the fingerprint. Maybe it's your server and you sneakernet the key to your client. And to appease the dumb protocol you wrap it up as a certificate (self-signed) and accept yourself as trustworthy (what a concept!).

Even if you use a third party, it doesn't have to be some big company that everybody is functionally obligated to trust. It could be a mutual friend making an introduction.

And certificates are not the only or necessarily the right solution to this problem in all domains. For example, if you have to go and check OCSP every time to see if the certificate might have been revoked, then you are relying on an online trusted source; but if you have an online trusted source, why don't they just tell you the current key and dispense with the certificate mechanism altogether?

X.509 was designed for X.500 and concepts that were relevant for X.500 continue to plague us all. I deployed corporate PKIs back in the 1990s for Sun and Pfizer and worked with other clients. What I remember best from those times was how ridiculous the whole thing is, over-engineered by parties who clearly didn't keep focus on the fundemental problem that public key cryptography is meant to solve.

Re:Safari will no longer trust certs valid for more than 13 ... by xg15 on Sunday February 23, 2020 @07:14PM (#22400531)
For the more concrete goal of having a valid TLS certificate that is trusted by browsers, you absolutely need a third party however.
Re:Safari will no longer trust certs valid for more than 13 ... by jchw on Sunday February 23, 2020 @07:55PM (#22400706)
My point is that this news item does not change reliance on a third party at all. Not that it’s impossible to exist.
Re:Safari will no longer trust certs valid for more than 13 ... by swiley on Sunday February 23, 2020 @07:44PM (#22400655)
A lot of other apps that use asymmetric crypto to authenticate the other end allow for “trust on first contact” for establishing trust.

It’s a little disappointing that many browsers have no support for this whatsoever and most have very poor support for it.

Re:Safari will no longer trust certs valid for more than 13 ... by jchw on Sunday February 23, 2020 @07:54PM (#22400700)
TOFU has its problems too, but its neither here nor there; CAs have been a part of HTTPS and SSL since the 90s. This news item, to me, does not signify any shift in whether a third party is needed or not.