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Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by ordinaryperson on Wednesday February 19, 2020 @05:10PM (#22370642)
George Washington lost his first campaign to the Virginia House of Burgess in 1755, 271-40.

When he ran again 3 years later he gave away 28 gallons of rum, 50 gallons of rum punch, 34 gallons of wine, 46 gallons of beer, and two gallons of cider royal — "nearly enough for a half-gallon per voter." And guess what, he won.

Considering we wouldn't even declare independence until 18 years later, it's safe to say that buying influence in an election has been American since the beginning, and even before.

[1] https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/12384/swilling-planters-...

Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by baybal2 on Wednesday February 19, 2020 @06:00PM (#22371033)
On the other hand, the Rockefeller family had a very long record of spending enormous sums on elections, whether by running themselves, or through an own candidate, and loosing every single time.

It will be a good read for everybody deifying "a realpolitik grandmaster" Henry Kissinger how badly he failed in the role of Rockefeller's political adviser. His ineptitude in politics was borderline tragicomedic. This the best proof to me that a "professional politician" is really an oxymoron.

The rich are bad at politics more often than not, and their money can compensate for that only partially.

Georgie Washington was however a spectacular politician on his own, without a doubt.

Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by RickJWagner on Wednesday February 19, 2020 @07:48PM (#22371769)
Sorry, there's been at least one successful Rockefeller.

Win Rockefeller was elected, and very popular.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winthrop_Rockefeller

Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by JauntTrooper on Wednesday February 19, 2020 @08:04PM (#22371845)
Nelson Rockefeller was also Governor of New York from 1959-1973.
Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by selimthegrim on Wednesday February 19, 2020 @09:45PM (#22372287)
Surely Jay Rockefeller of WV too?
Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by deevolution on Wednesday February 19, 2020 @06:05PM (#22371073)
Andrew yang offered Americans 1k/month... maybe he should have offered 1k/month in booze, opioids and football tickets instead
Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by MuffinFlavored on Wednesday February 19, 2020 @06:54PM (#22371444)
I have no answers as to why Andrew Yang did not poll more than 1-5% in Iowa/New Hampshire.
Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by webninja on Thursday February 20, 2020 @09:06AM (#22375113)
To me, Yang seemed like an advertising platform to raise awareness on a few of his clearly defined issues such as reasons for war, freedom dividends, and support for mothers raising children. These are a small number of ideas any candidate or senator can adopt and as president, you don’t just write 3 bills go home, and call it a term. Sanders and Buttigieg seemed more capable and well equipped (to me at least) to be able to tackle the wider range of B.S. presidents have to deal with.
Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by godelski on Thursday February 20, 2020 @02:35PM (#22377848)
I'm confused by this comment because he had more issues on his page than anyone else and was constantly adding more and updating them as he was talking to average day Americans and trying to better understand their day to day problems.
Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by akvadrako on Wednesday February 19, 2020 @07:15PM (#22371584)
Very little media attention.
Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by beamatronic on Thursday February 20, 2020 @01:47AM (#22373198)
He was the only candidate I could relate to.
Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by 0-_-0 on Thursday February 20, 2020 @08:39AM (#22374961)
Same here, he is a huge nerd.
Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by uoaei on Wednesday February 19, 2020 @05:49PM (#22370945)
This comment carries the implication that because this practice is American, it's OK if we continue doing it. I heartily disagree and thinks it's abominable to consider something as consequential as this election in such stark, cynical terms.
Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by scarmig on Wednesday February 19, 2020 @06:00PM (#22371036)
For some reason, say the words Founding Fathers and too many Americans' brains seize up, even though they were a motley assembly of, among other things, tax cheats, drunks, and racists. Nor were they particularly great political scientists: all of their main goals (no political parties! Congress acting on a check on the President!) fell by the wayside, and the rickety mess that is the Constitution has only survived because of a lack of threatening national competitors within a couple thousand miles of our borders.
Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by influx on Wednesday February 19, 2020 @08:03PM (#22371842)
And yet it is the oldest existing nation with a constitutional government in which the people elect their own government and representatives. It's always been a work in progress and always will be.
Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by harry8 on Wednesday February 19, 2020 @10:27PM (#22372448)
Is it? Really? Hasn't the U.K. been a constitutional monarchy since 1688 or so?

I totally accept it if we're only counting from the start of true universal adult suffrage, including women and taking no account of melanin content of skin - whoever is first on that deserves it be known widely for their national pride. Was that the USA?

Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by wyre on Wednesday February 19, 2020 @10:39PM (#22372499)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_suffrage

UK has had universal suffrage since 1928. It looks like Finland was the first in 1904.

Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by harry8 on Wednesday February 19, 2020 @10:41PM (#22372505)
Hey thanks. Go the Finns! Rah!

Edit: New Zealand 1893. Go the Kiwis! Ka Mate!

Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by anthm1988 on Friday February 21, 2020 @02:23PM (#22385935)
and the US didn't have universal suffrage until the 1960s.

Arguably we still don't, given what the republicans have done to subvert democracy in Florida.

Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by scarmig on Friday February 21, 2020 @05:30AM (#22382182)
The US can't realistically be considered an elected government until, optimistically, the 1960s. If you want to grant the US a couple centuries worth of mulligans, you can do the same with, at the very least, the UK, and arguably some other countries like Switzerland.

And you ignore the other key point, which is that the US had no real national competitors near its borders, while other countries whose stability you discount did. That's the key point to American stability, not any world historical genius in drafting the Constitution.

Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by anthm1988 on Friday February 21, 2020 @02:22PM (#22385924)
Except we allowed progress to stall and now claim that's a virtue.

America is by far the oldest nation with a presidency, and it's finally starting to collapse.

Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by philwelch on Friday February 21, 2020 @01:45AM (#22381370)
Congress doesn’t act as a check on the President?
Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by scarmig on Friday February 21, 2020 @05:23AM (#22382166)
See: impeachment proceedings. Concretely, the Trump administration ignored Congressional subpoenas, among other things, in clear acts of obstruction of justice in a way that undermined Congressional authority. Also see, for instance, his treatment of tax returns. Partisan polarization has made the idea of interbranch checks and balances defunct.
Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by philwelch on Friday February 21, 2020 @06:04AM (#22382308)
The courts never made a ruling on whether those Congressional subpoenas were legally binding—in fact, when one of the people subpoenaed tried to take that question to federal court, the House instead chose to withdraw the subpoena. I’m also not sure what Trump’s tax returns have to do with checks and balances between the Congress and the President.

Setting those things aside, claiming that Congress doesn’t act as a check on the President simply does not square up with such things as the government shutdowns of 2013, 2018, and 2018/19, the Senate’s refusal to confirm Obama’s appointment of Merrick Garland to the Supreme Court, the 2011 debt ceiling crisis, and it only goes on from there. Partisan polarization has made the checks and balances between the two elected branches more, not less relevant.

Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by scarmig on Friday February 21, 2020 @07:19PM (#22388399)
No; you're attempting to evade the central point by changing the argument to a typical Republican/Democratic slugfest.

I don't care about the merits of Congressional prerogatives here, which is an entirely secondary point. The point is that the Founding Fathers believed that Congress would defend its own prerogatives against the executive. This has been proven false: a model where government is dominated by partisan prerogatives is far more descriptive of reality than one where branches-of-governments pursue their own prerogatives.

Your latter point--that a Republican Congress investigated and obstructed a Democratic President--is true, but it is, again, an indication that Congress is driven by the needs of the political parties who happen to be running it at the time, not as an institution in itself.

This is entirely contrary to what the vaunted Founding Fathers intended or expected. Not least because the main thinkers among them thought the system would prevent the development of political parties. The Constitution was theorized to deal with abstractions that don't correspond to reality, and it doesn't even consider the most important driver of politics and governance not only in the contemporary world but in the world that existed a year after it was ratified.

In a world where political parties are accepted as a given and inevitable, no one would write anything like the Constitution and expect it to be effective. And no one has: even after WW2, when the US was drafting constitutions for its defeated opponents, it went with documents entirely unlike our own.

Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by philwelch on Friday February 21, 2020 @07:33PM (#22388477)
> you're attempting to evade the central point by changing the argument to a typical Republican/Democratic slugfest.

I wasn't intending to.

> I don't care about the merits of Congressional prerogatives here, which is an entirely secondary point. The point is that the Founding Fathers believed that Congress would defend its own prerogatives against the executive. This has been proven false.... Congress is driven by the needs of the political parties who happen to be running it at the time, not as an institution in itself.

Got it, this is a better explanation and I think I agree with it.

Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by anthm1988 on Friday February 21, 2020 @02:25PM (#22385951)
If those subpoenas aren't valid, then congress cannot possible act as a check on the president.

> Senate’s refusal to confirm Obama’s appointment of Merrick Garland to the Supreme Court

Not a check so much as a complete refusal to perform constitutional duty. What McConnell did was subvert the process of checks and balances to remove the presidents ability to make appointments.

Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by philwelch on Friday February 21, 2020 @03:40PM (#22386485)
> If those subpoenas aren't valid, then congress cannot possible act as a check on the president

Sure they can. They can refuse to confirm his appointments, they can pass laws with a large enough supermajority to override his veto, and they can even remove him from office with a Senate supermajority.

> What McConnell did was subvert the process of checks and balances to remove the presidents ability to make appointments.

Thus disproving this notion that Congress is powerless against the President. The President has the constitutional power to make appointments with the advice and consent of the Senate. There's nothing in the Constitution that says the Senate has to have a good reason to withhold that consent.

Re:Bloomberg bankrolls a social-media army by anthm1988 on Friday February 21, 2020 @05:32PM (#22387619)
> There's nothing in the Constitution that says the Senate has to have a good reason to withhold that consent.

The constitution is a deeply flawed document that relies on the acceptance of norms and generally good actors. Absent that you end up with a wannabe dictator like Trump acting basically unchallenged.

> and they can even remove him from office with a Senate supermajority.

an act made much harder when the executive flouts subpoenas.