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Re:Move, simply by codr7 on Monday February 17, 2020 @05:18PM (#22351412)
And this is about the point where I finally gave up on C++, I just wish I could get the time I spent learning all the rules and all their exceptions back.

It has now morphed into a language where today's optimal code looks horribly inefficient by yesterday's standards. Which adds another layer of uncertainty to what was already a pretty serious mess of a language.

Calling this simple is about as silly as it gets. Thanks, but no thanks, I have problems to solve.

Re:Move, simply by lioeters on Tuesday February 18, 2020 @09:45AM (#22356397)
@codr7 - By chance I was just browsing your projects yesterday!

g-fu ¹, a Lisp dialect in Go, is a marvel. Other languages you've been creating (gfoo, cfoo, lila) are tastefully done too.

So I'm in total agreement with you about the monstrosity that is modern C++. Nobody would have designed such a language from scratch.

It seems to be a common fate of popular and long-lived languages (or projects, companies even), that it grows into a complicated monster that would horrify its original creator.

¹ https://github.com/codr7/g-fu

Re:Move, simply by codr7 on Tuesday February 18, 2020 @10:21AM (#22356647)
I'm glad you enjoy them, writing and using these languages floats my boat but it's always nice to get confirmation that I'm not alone in here :)

The biggest issue with g-fu is that it currently expands macros on evaluation. What can I say, it was the first time I implemented quasi-quoting which twisted my brain in exotic ways. That's also why it's so close to Lisp, because it's the only decent macro system I have experience from.

g-foo is definitely a cleaner design, but more Forth than Lisp which may not be everyone's cup.

Agreed, and Bjarne said so himself; that there's a cleaner, more consistent language hidden deep inside C++. C compatibility has been a blessing and a curse. I think Stepanov is a better designer though; if it wasn't for the STL, I would have given up a long time ago.

Re:Move, simply by richard78459 on Tuesday February 18, 2020 @06:45AM (#22355229)
But the world is built on C++ and there are no alternatives for it. C is too low level and Rust has garbage collector which may not be fit for the domain C++ is suitable for. No alternatives in the domains where C++ shines.
Re:Move, simply by unrealhoang on Tuesday February 18, 2020 @07:56AM (#22355640)
Rust has as much garbage collector as C++ has share_ptr. Put simply, it doesn’t have.
Re:Move, simply by codr7 on Tuesday February 18, 2020 @10:25AM (#22356680)
There is definitely more C than C++ running under the hood on most computers. C is the language where there are no alternatives if you ask me. Go is garbage collected and C++/Rust are both infinitely more complicated.
Re:Move, simply by DoingIsLearning on Tuesday February 18, 2020 @07:14AM (#22355367)
Ada 2012?

Perhaps no other _popular_ alternatives but still there are alternatives.