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Re:U.S. Officials Say Huawei Can Covertly Access Telecom Net... by kelnos on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @09:48PM (#22305278)
Both the American and Chinese governments have bad track records when it comes to abusing civil liberties, privacy intrusion. I would say that the Chinese government is worse, but that doesn't really matter from my perspective for this particular thing.

As an American, I expect that the US government, if it wants it enough, can obtain access to my communications (at least while using US infrastructure), assuming they're not e2e encrypted. Hopefully such access would be gated by a warrant, and I expect in most cases that's how it works, though I do expect there are abuses here and there.

The Chinese government, however, should not have any kind of access to any of my communications (unless I am visiting China, using their infrastructure; or perhaps am communicating with someone in China from abroad). In addition, if the relationship between the US and China ever sours to the point of war, presumably the Chinese would have no problem using any possible backdoors to disrupt US telecom networks.

Given this, I would much rather the US use US-built telecom infrastructure than Chinese-built infra. I think an argument over which government is more moral or trustworthy is just not useful here.

Re:U.S. Officials Say Huawei Can Covertly Access Telecom Net... by p1necone on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @10:38PM (#22305507)
If I was living in America, I'd much rather have the Chinese government spying on me than the American government, and vice versa if I were in China. Obviously that's me as a selfish individual - it does indeed make more sense for America as a whole to not want other nation states snooping on them.
Re:U.S. Officials Say Huawei Can Covertly Access Telecom Net... by smnrchrds on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @11:01PM (#22305628)
Real choices (if you live in America) are (1) American government only or (2) American and Chinese governments both. As a resident of Canada, my choices are (1) Canadian and American, or (2) Canadian and Chinese.
Re:U.S. Officials Say Huawei Can Covertly Access Telecom Net... by 07d046 on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @11:06PM (#22305652)
The scary thing about this attitude is that if it's widely adopted and results in Huawei being welcomed (or something that facilities spying), it puts the people who do push back against the Chinese government in the crosshairs.
Re:U.S. Officials Say Huawei Can Covertly Access Telecom Net... by caconym_ on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @10:57PM (#22305599)
Well, the reason I bring it (the moral judgment) up is that in the comment I replied to we see the usual "whataboutism" being invoked, and that leads naturally to the domain of moral judgments by implicitly strawmanning the opposing position that the Chinese government is bad and the American government is good so we should accept the latter doing shitty things but not the former.

I mean, why else would you bring it up at all? No shit, governments are going to spy on people ... it's still useful and interesting to know which governments are doing the spying, and how, and who's accusing who of what (which is obviously not the same thing). It's newsworthy even without moral judgment. But the whataboutism drags morals into the picture.

I agree with your comment in the sense that it is a reasonably accurate description of reality and some notions of "should" in the (very fuzzy) [international] legal sense.

On the other hand, assuming that future people will have to live under both regimes, and given that "cyber-intrusions" are moves in a greater conflict that is likely to escalate and has profound implications for the future shape of human society and thought, I think it's quite useful to bring morals into the picture if one of our goals is to maximize good outcomes and minimize bad outcomes for other humans.