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Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by TeMPOraL on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @06:33PM (#22252002)
First step would be to kill advertising-based models. Get them banned. Because it's the advertising industry's race to the bottom that poisons everything, and fuels the creation of surveillance infrastructure. With ad-related snooping gone, it will be much easier to rein in the remaining few players who misuse data in pursuit of optimizing their business models.

(And yes, I know ads enable a lot of free content on-line. But as countless problems like this show, it's a bad tradeoff.)

Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by bArray on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @08:36PM (#22252724)
There was a time before now where advertising was effective and didnt track you - it was the advent of targeted advertisement which really killed things off.

Can we go back to the days where an advert was was just an image and a hyperlink? Where advertisement paid by the pixel and location on the website? Where JavaScript was unused unless in some rare and warranted cases?

I still believe the web can be a free and open market place of ideas.

Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by mdhardeman on Friday February 07, 2020 @12:47AM (#22263528)
There are two troubles:

1. The uplift of targeted advertising is unbelievable until you see the actual statistics. It's like slowly sipping a cup of coffee to wake up versus waking up to snort a line of crack.

2. Advertisers were abused and defrauded by adtech. Which has inspired all kinds of surveillance hellscape because the advertisers finally caught wise and have renegotiated to pay for actual performance only -- not clicks -- actually closed sales. But adtech wants paid if you do your research online, respond to an ad online, and then buy in store. And a whole lot of adtech now allows for that. Attributing an in-store purchase with no customer interaction to a prior web session by that same party.

The benefit of those two factors to the advertisers is such that we can't have a serious discussion about this shit going away without a law which assigns criminal penalties for being a beneficiary of the scheme.

Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by warent on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @08:59PM (#22252843)
Most ads that I remember when I was new to the internet were all running flash and had really annoying circus-game-like objectives such as "Can you shoot the basketball through the hoop?!?"

I hate the means by which advertising is targeted today, but I would be lying if I said the format of the ads themselves were more annoying or less useful than the past.

Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by L-four on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @08:54PM (#22252811)
Ads enabling free online content is a bit of a glazier's fallacy. Yes, when ads are an option most content producers will be funded by ads. it's simple to implement and does not require end user consent but as soon as the degenerate strategy is removed new strategies become viable such as micro-payments.
Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by jmiskovic on Thursday February 06, 2020 @05:49AM (#22255051)
I think the potential of micro-payments was never reached because transactions are currently too large, and uni-directional. If we could process payments of $0.01, it would create a culture were you are actually willing to pay for content. Also, if you make a insightful comment, a product review, or even a upvote, you should receive some credits to spend back on consuming content. Doesn't have to be blockchain, it would be effective even if limited to one site or content provider.
Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by mdhardeman on Friday February 07, 2020 @12:50AM (#22263540)
What we actually need in a practical sense is Kindle Unlimited but for web content.

And furthermore it could be a plurality of those kinds of providers aggregating content.

Deploy single-sign-on schemes, and websites might participate in a plurality of programs from different vendors.

But at the end of the day, you'd pay one or two "providers" a monthly sub, they pool the funds, take their cut, and do prorata distribution of the pool based on views, eyeball time, popularity of content, lots of ways.

No need to perform microtransactions from a banking perspective. You're going to eat $20 of web content this month, and so will lots of others. And then those views can participate in the pool and get paid monthly or something.

Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by vsareto on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @07:09PM (#22252231)
Nothing short of inquisition-style inspections of company servers, code, and networks is going to fix it on that front. We'll have to do some really radical invasions of company privacy before it results in more than fines-as-a-business-expense.
Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by c0restraint on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @07:24PM (#22252321)
Not really, you just need to incentivise the behaviour. Pass a law to make it illegal to show ads based on tracking, with executive imprisonment for violations. Executives will then demand their teams to put controls in place to ensure that no one is using tracking to show ads. Violations of HIPAA have some serious fines, and I've watched executives at all levels take it VERY seriously
Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by mixmastamyk on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @08:02PM (#22252563)
Rich executives and therefore the media tend to push back on such limits. And they tend to be more equal than the rest of us.
Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by dragonsh on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @08:36PM (#22252726)
Wouldn't this executive and Media companies will run afoul of the GDPR act. At least in EU they can be fined and may be prosecuted if they are repeat offenders.

It will be nice if all the EU residents in one go send a request to remove their information from all the US based media and technology giants who under the guise of changing the world are indeed working to sale more to consumers and make themselves rich.

Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by sizzle on Friday February 07, 2020 @08:00PM (#22272875)
Awesome idea, HIPAA for protection against the advertising industry and their digital intrusion/violation/surveillance of our privacy.

Something like APPAA - Advertising Privacy Protection and Accountability Act

What would you guys call it? what language is necessary to cover all the edge cases for the deceptive and dirty-playing advertising industry?

Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by numpad0 on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @08:13PM (#22252614)
Luckily 1/3rd-ish of those are happening over HTTP(S) over IP on PC.
Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by mdhardeman on Friday February 07, 2020 @12:43AM (#22263512)
The entire targeted ad model has to die.

As in, being a beneficent party of a targeted ad campaign becomes a presumption of criminal activity.

We have to make the advertisers culpable for the behavior of the companies serving up their ads.

Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by devteambravo on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @06:39PM (#22252042)
Do you know of anyone working on such an effort?
Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by bitL on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @06:58PM (#22252160)
Self-hosted apps/DApps come to mind however they are still alpha-quality. It might take some time (~5 years) to replace 90% of expected FAANG functionality.
Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by anonu on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @08:39PM (#22252740)
This is just a non starter and a pipe dream. It goes against the principles of capitalism and free enterprise.

You need to think about incentives. You have two tablets, identical in functionality and performance. But the one without the ads and surveillance features costs twenty percent more. Which one do you buy? Actually Kindle did this for a while (maybe they still do...). I ended up buying the cheaper one with the ads.

Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by jacurtis on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @09:01PM (#22252851)
Can confirm that Kindle does in fact sell devices that are ad-supported.

For a $20 one time fee you can remove this feature (which can be done after purchase at any time). But most people won't notice the tiny option select on the amazon purchase page that defaults to "with Special Offers".

To make it even more confusing, they make it sound like the better option to pick is the ad-supported version. I mean you are choosing between the model "with special offers" or the one "without special offers"? Most people that don't know any better will leave the default "with special offers" options selected.

Source: https://www.amazon.com/All-new-Kindle-now-with-a-built-in-fr...

Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by TeMPOraL on Thursday February 06, 2020 @02:57AM (#22254304)
Yes, you're right. I know people who bought Kindle with ads just to save that 20% or so.

But that's why I wrote that advertising-based business models need to be banned. Not discouraged, not badmouthed, but banned. They're anticompetitive and poisonous; when one company starts doing it, others in the whole sector are drawn to follow suit (it's e.g. why it's hard to actually sell apps on mobile or make subscriptions for publications on-line profitable; ad-supported operations create a baseline cost of zero).

Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by dontblink on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @06:40PM (#22252049)
So go back to the 90s? Microsoft being the reigning king? Not sure if this time period was honestly better.

Or alternatively, give users ownership of their data like the EU has taken steps to do. Advertising is here to stay and provides its own use. But there could be something that forces transparency.

Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by geophile on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @07:15PM (#22252267)
How about no free stuff on the web? Charge for services and make it illegal to sell private information without the subject’s consent and remuneration.
Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by dontblink on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @07:48PM (#22252474)
Making it illegal won't solve much. E.g. FB doesn't sell private information, they sell the ability to target demographics. However I understand the underlying principle which you are espousing.

The genie is out of the bottle at this point. IMHO the only method forward is how do we as a society responsibly allow for coexistence such that all parties are satisfied.

Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by ardy42 on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @08:44PM (#22252770)
>> How about no free stuff on the web? Charge for services and make it illegal to sell private information without the subject’s consent and remuneration.

> Making it illegal won't solve much. E.g. FB doesn't sell private information, they sell the ability to target demographics.

You just need to appropriately specify what's being made illegal. You're right that FB could weasel out of a law that outlawed selling private information. They couldn't weasel out of a law that outlawed monetizing personal data without user consent.

Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by mdhardeman on Friday February 07, 2020 @01:08AM (#22263625)
Precisely. And then extend it further. Make advertisers responsible for the behavior of the ad marketplaces, ad tech, ad venues they're paying.

Make their only defense be cooperation in prosecuting the offending party.

Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by mdhardeman on Friday February 07, 2020 @01:07AM (#22263619)
The way to criminalize it properly is to create a presumption of criminal activity when an advertiser benefits from ad targeting. Literally anything more than the advertiser choosing what sites to appear on should be made criminal. No other criteria allowed.
Re:Wacom tablets track every app you open by rhizome on Wednesday February 05, 2020 @06:56PM (#22252143)
>Not sure if this time period was honestly better.

Canter and Siegel was in 1994.