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Re:Buffer overflow when pwfeedback is set in sudoers by tialaramex on Sunday February 02, 2020 @07:57PM (#22220583)
> When I was a pentester, out of more than 50 projects I was on, I always found at least a medium-severity bug

Perhaps you were a good pentester. More likely the code you attacked was rubbish.

I worked on a relatively important Internet-facing web application for about a decade, it was pen tested by a variety of outfits both when it was owned by a small start-up and when it was owned by a huge corporation.

Good design meant that we never saw any pen tester come anywhere close to "pwn the app" in either its public UI or the APIs which were (by my insistence) publicly accessible rather than wasting our time chasing endless "please change the allowed IP ranges" requests through layers of bureaucracy.

My experience was pen testers would bang on the predictable places, try obvious things, maybe trigger some alarms which I then had to pause - and get nowhere. We'd get back a report that said things like if I put in this nonsense email address I get a different error message than this other nonsense email address. OK, that's nice we'll put it on the backlog, did you find any actual security problems? No.

I'd say that using a memory safe language (Java) helped make that happen, IMNSHO as a very good C programmer for whom writing it in Java was not my first choice (nor was C).

Re:Buffer overflow when pwfeedback is set in sudoers by josephg on Sunday February 02, 2020 @10:08PM (#22221104)
I think most of the people you'll find writing code in C today have decades of experience programming. And I think the knowledge and experience they have makes a huge difference in practice when it comes to security engineering.

In comparison, so much modern javascript is written by junior developers - often without a lot of oversight. Junior developers can't "see" security vulnerabilities yet because they haven't learned to look for them. So I'm not surprised there's lots of critical vulnerabilities in modern software. Many coding bootcamps don't bother to teach any security engineering or best practices, and doing consulting work I've (often by chance) caught a disastrous amount of awful code people have tried to push to production simply because they didn't know any better. A lot of it is really simple stuff - guessable database IDs used as session tokens. JSON objects passed from the browser directly into mongodb. Authentication checks accidentally missing from certain admin dashboard APIs. Passwords and credit card information stored in plaintext, handrolled crypto, and so on.

Given the choice between C code and Rust code written by someone who's been programming for 30 years I expect the rust code would be safer. But if I'm asked to choose between C code written by an experienced engineer and javascript code written by a junior engineer, it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out that the C code was on average still more secure.

Re:Buffer overflow when pwfeedback is set in sudoers by fulafel on Monday February 03, 2020 @12:32AM (#22221667)
20+ year programmers are such a tiny tiny cohort compared to recent ones, I think you underestimate this effect.

(Not that 20 years of experience makes you a decent secure C programmer, but that's a different argument)

Re:Buffer overflow when pwfeedback is set in sudoers by adrianN on Monday February 03, 2020 @12:32AM (#22221668)
I think your vastly underestimating the amount of C and C++ written by junior programmers and you're also overestimating the benefits of decades of C experience.
Re:Buffer overflow when pwfeedback is set in sudoers by astura on Monday February 03, 2020 @05:28AM (#22222957)
To be honest, as a group, I find C and C++ programmers (even the ones with decades of experience) to be below average in knowledge and skill.
Re:Buffer overflow when pwfeedback is set in sudoers by clappski on Monday February 03, 2020 @06:51AM (#22223375)
Ouch.

What experiences have given you that opinion?

Re:Buffer overflow when pwfeedback is set in sudoers by astura on Monday February 03, 2020 @10:51PM (#22232219)
Occasionally working with people who have spent decades coding almost solely in C or C++ at one of my old jobs. (Not just one person and not just one team.)

I don't remember too many specifics (it was a while ago) other than being brought onboard and having to introduce the tech lead to the "static" keyword.