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Re:Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity fillin... by kazinator on Friday January 31, 2020 @01:27PM (#22204074)
I've been on dial-up bulletin boards since 1983, Usenet since around the same 1991.

Though in some ways it's the same, here is the difference: it has become more diverse.

In 1991, the people you might have conversed with on Usenet were a lot similar to you. Of course, if we go to some comp.lang.* newsgroup or whatever, people are similar even today.

But I mean that if you went into any newsgroup whatsoever in 1991, on any topic, everyone there would probably have been some sort of professional in a STEM field, academic or university student. Go to, say, rec.pets.dogs, and it wasn't just any dog lovers from any walk of life, but mostly engineers, programmers and sysadmins who are into dogs.

That's way different from going into Reddit today, where it's now any Tom, Dick and Harry from any walk of life, who only have a certain topic of interest in common and that's it.

People have social interactions online which they wouldn't have in real life. In real life, if you run into someone who is from, say, a "lower" social class, they have it written all over them, and it puts them in their place more effectively than any downvoting system.

For instance, in real life, you would either never argue politics with an obvious "despicable", or else you'd immediately attribute everything they say to the limited scope of their background and just nod your head politely.

Basically, there is no new divisiveness; the quiet divisiveness we already have just comes out when people get together and hide behind aliases and avatars.

Re:Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity fillin... by amatecha on Friday January 31, 2020 @02:54PM (#22204970)
Yeah I've been online since ~92 and have been saying approximately the same thing as well. Back then you hop onto IRC and you're generally talking with academics and programmers from around the world. Browse any web directories and it's extremely information-rich.

There was a real technical or situational hurdle to even be present on the net back then, and I think most users had a sense of wonder and perhaps respect for the platform they were privileged to even get a glimpse into and partake in. Maybe? Today the amount of low-effort/low-value thoughtless vitriol makes up a much much larger percentage of the communication and web content than "back in the day". Spend but a few moments and you will encounter some flamebait/sensationalistic noise. It used to be a lot harder to be subjected to such stuff. Tragedy of the internet commons, or something.

Re:Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity fillin... by kazinator on Friday January 31, 2020 @04:02PM (#22205690)
> since ~92

Thus you would remember a bit of the tail end of the era before Eternal September.

Normally, September was the time when a crop of new students would get accounts at universities and step into the world of Usenet for the first time, behaving like asses.

In September 1993, AOL connected to Usenet. That became known as Eternal September.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September

The online world we have today is basically the continuation of Eternal September, reaching further depths of deterioration.

Re:Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity fillin... by davidgay on Saturday February 01, 2020 @12:07AM (#22208816)
> In 1991, the people you might have conversed with on Usenet were a lot similar to you.

I'd suggest you missed noticing some of the more divided corners of Usenet back then. Consider (admittedly an extreme example)

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/soc.culture.yugos...

Re:Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity fillin... by dsfyu404ed on Friday January 31, 2020 @01:49PM (#22204334)
I agree. Big centralized platforms (youtube, Reddit, the chans, HN to some exent) mean that the internet riff raff (i.e. people with no interest in the niche and who may feel like trolling) are free to show up in any given niche area of the platform (e.g. a subreddit or someone's channel) and then shit all over it. A community that would have been perfectly peaceful on a newsgroup, IRC channel or forum now has to contend with literally anyone from anywhere else on the platform. The old 4chan quip about /b/ leaking is now the default state on basically every platform because the platforms are so big even a small trickle of trolls is a full on flood of crap. People are getting fed up. I think there will be some decentralization in our future.
Re:Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity fillin... by djanlermats2020 on Saturday February 01, 2020 @10:41AM (#22211067)
Trolls are a trivial problem, easily dealt with.

The real problem with practically every internet community is its moderation, because the worst people with the least business doing that job inevitably float to the top and are then impossible to dislodge without voting with your feet and creating an entire new community.

Re:Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity fillin... by rlucas on Friday January 31, 2020 @01:58PM (#22204441)
The corollary to this that remains unspoken about the OP's thesis is: because of the mass reach of the major platforms, the "toxic" effects now have escaped being an internet-only phenomenon and now are manifesting in meatspace.

It's overly reductionist to attribute Trump and Brexit just to online trolls, but it's folly to ignore their effect at the margins (because both Trump and Brexit were relatively close calls, influencing a 5% middle ground definitely mattered).

Re:Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity fillin... by kazinator on Friday January 31, 2020 @02:07PM (#22204527)
On traditional Usenet there is a kind of unspoken rule about never taking online disputes offline. Everyone was supposed to understand that it's just a game.

A good portion of the ragamuffins who are overflowing the online world have not such concept. Everything is personal.

Re:Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity fillin... by jjtheblunt on Friday January 31, 2020 @02:06PM (#22204511)
"meatspace" : what an apropos description
Re:Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity fillin... by quotemstr on Friday January 31, 2020 @01:58PM (#22204440)
I don't think it's that at all. People have always been able to visit different websites. It still happens today. The rise of mega-platforms is concerning, but not for the reason you cite. It's always been possible for "riff-raff" to notice a community.