An alternative argument for why women leave STEM

Re:An alternative argument for why women leave STEM by wilg on Friday January 17, 2020 @08:35PM (#22081542)

You're suggesting we should arrange society a specific way because of some connection to "biology". I am saying that the arrangements you seem to be for are no more rooted in biology than the arrangements you seem to be against.

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Re:An alternative argument for why women leave STEM by uncle_j on Friday January 17, 2020 @08:42PM (#22081568)

> You're suggesting we should arrange society a specific way because of some connection to "biology".

Nope. I didn't say that.

> There is about 4 billion years of evolution and the thinking that it can be socially engineered away is a folly.

I didn't make any statement on how to arrange society. I simply stated that I believe they would all eventually fail.

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Re:An alternative argument for why women leave STEM by wilg on Friday January 17, 2020 @08:52PM (#22081619)

You called the expectation of men to be breadwinners a natural consequence of sexual dimorphism, and said it was folly to "engineer" it away. That is a statement about how you think society should be arranged and why.

Also, if you believe _all_ arrangements of society will eventually fall, then wouldn't that make any arrangement acceptable to you? Including the one you were dismissing?

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Re:An alternative argument for why women leave STEM by uncle_j on Friday January 17, 2020 @09:12PM (#22081712)

> You called the expectation of men to be breadwinners a natural consequence of sexual dimorphism, and said it was folly to "engineer" it away. That is a statement about how you think society should be arranged and why.

No it isn't. It is a statement of what I believe to be the truth. All the evidence and arguments around the topic I have seen and heard seem to lead in that direction. If you disagree with that conclusion that is fine.

However it doesn't mean that I believe that things should arranged in such a manner.

> Also, if you believe _all_ arrangements of society will eventually fall, then wouldn't that make any arrangement acceptable to you? Including the one you were dismissing?

I don't know. I wasn't saying anything about that. I was simply disagree that it is sexism. I don't buy into this the notion of "unconscious sexism".

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Re:An alternative argument for why women leave STEM by wilg on Saturday January 18, 2020 @01:34AM (#22082778)

Maybe we are talking past each other because we have different definitions here. How do you define sexism (in this context, for you)?

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