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Re:An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t h... by hansbo on Thursday January 16, 2020 @03:57AM (#22062771)
> Main takeaway, very interesting analogy. Ant colonies are great examples of complex systems with emergent large-scale behavior. Indeed the same could be said about networks of neurons. Interesting to think of an ant colony as the sum of oscillations of signals.

Indeed. I've long thought that an ant colony should be seen as a single individual, rather than a group. One part which can procreate, like the reproductive system. Another which can fight off invaders, like white blood cells, or perhaps muscles. The anthill, in turn, is like a body; constructed by the cells and neurons, and protecting the system as a whole.

Re:An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t h... by soulofmischief on Thursday January 16, 2020 @04:16PM (#22069039)
The emergent layers are organelles -> cell -> tissue -> organ -> organ system -> organism -> organization.

Consciousness is an emergent phenomenon and a collection of consciousness is the noosphere. Even though each of your organs make their own decisions and contribute individually to your "consciousness", you still consider the entire thing your "self". Your decisions are made based on analyzing multiple conflicting distributed signals given off by your organs.

Organizations are no different, assuming identity, autonomy, and motivation.

Re:An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t h... by koonsolo on Thursday January 16, 2020 @04:33AM (#22062955)
I was going to say you can also look at a country like this, with roads as veins, military as white blood cells, scientists/universities for brains, etc.

But my theory falls apart with the reproduction system. We don't really reproduce other 'countries'. While with ant colonies, a single entity produces all the "cells", and also all the "embryos" to start their own ant colonies.

In that sense an ant colony uses asexual reproduction if looked at as a whole.

Thanks for the new insights! :)

Re:An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t h... by dragonwriter on Thursday January 16, 2020 @05:45AM (#22063338)
> But my theory falls apart with the reproduction system. We don't really reproduce other 'countries'.

Sure we do. The UK has a whole lot of offspring, for instance.

Re:An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t h... by yesbabyyes on Thursday January 16, 2020 @08:05AM (#22064081)
Offspring, perhaps. But kidnapping is not reproduction.
Re:An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t h... by dibujaron on Thursday January 16, 2020 @11:32AM (#22066082)
I'd say it's reproduction, it's just not voluntary reproduction. Every time a culture invades another, you can think of it as creating a new culture that has the "genes" of the previous two. Examples include the influence of the moors on Spain, the changes to the English language due to the Norman conquest, and the modern unique Afrikaner culture of South Africa.
Re:An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t h... by hutzlibu on Thursday January 16, 2020 @03:07PM (#22068336)
I'd say it is a mix.

Partly reproduction, partly conquering. As usual the place is not empty.

Re:An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t h... by UnFleshedOne on Friday January 17, 2020 @02:32PM (#22078274)
Xenomorphs (or less exotically, parasitic wasps) reproduce just fine in that style.
Re:An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t h... by Lambdanaut on Thursday January 16, 2020 @09:12AM (#22064636)
Countries die and are reborn as new countries. The USA is a child of England.

Countries definitely do reproduce, usually on a longer cycle than that of the humans that make them up.

Re:An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t h... by cdo256 on Thursday January 16, 2020 @05:42AM (#22063323)
In some ways that's what collonialism is. It doesn't happen as much these days but if/when we start colonizing other planets, that would be a form of countries (or unions) reproducing.
Re:An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t h... by dragonwriter on Thursday January 16, 2020 @05:47AM (#22063357)
> It doesn't happen as much these days

Oh, we still lay the eggs of new countries in the corpses of ones we kill.

Re:An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t h... by ta999999171 on Thursday January 16, 2020 @07:23AM (#22063826)
Search 'Wikipedia US Involvement in Regime Change' for more details.
Re:An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t h... by andersonvieira on Thursday January 16, 2020 @05:43AM (#22063332)
I'm not sure about ants, but with bees the males generally come from other colonies. A princess mating with males from the same colony may cause problems in the offspring.
Re:An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t h... by pure-awesome on Thursday January 16, 2020 @04:23AM (#22062901)
This point is made in the book "The Soul of the White Ant" by Eugène Marais, and is perhaps the primary thesis of the book.

It is a fascinating book, and I can recommend reading it, though having been published in 1925, it is possible some of the information is out-of-date.

https://www.amazon.com/Soul-White-Ant-Complete-Unabridged/dp...

"White Ant" actually refers to termites, though the same principles apply. The book was originally published in Afrikaans. According to Wikipedia:

> [The book] was plagiarised by Nobel laureate Maurice Maeterlinck, who published La Vie des Termites (translated into English as The Life of Termites or The Life of White Ants), an entomological book,[3] in what has been called "a classic example of academic plagiarism" by University of London's professor of biology, David Bignell.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eug%C3%A8ne_Marais#Theft_of_hi...

Following reference [4] led to this page which I unfortunately don't have the time to read in its entirety right now, but from a skim seems to have some interesting further information on termites:

https://web.archive.org/web/20070915005006/http://www.biolog...

Re:An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t h... by wh1t3n01s3 on Thursday January 16, 2020 @07:57AM (#22064033)
The hardcover version is only 814.57$
Re:An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t h... by pure-awesome on Thursday January 16, 2020 @09:24AM (#22064762)
My goodness, would you look at that! Luckily the paperback is only 1% the price, so solid deal there!

I thought it's a data entry error, but no, it looks like that's the legitimate price range for the NEW hardcovers (the actual listed ones are even more!):

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0007JVUSK/ref=dp_ol...

It's either a ripoff, or some sort of collector's edition original versions. Though if it were the latter, I'd have expected it to be advertised as such.

Re:An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t h... by ComputerGuru on Thursday January 16, 2020 @11:25AM (#22066011)
They’re priced by different algorithms that “outbid” each other.
Re:An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t h... by pure-awesome on Friday January 17, 2020 @02:06AM (#22072518)
Do they start them at $1'000 and let them bid down from there?
Re:An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t h... by SQueeeeeL on Friday January 17, 2020 @01:05PM (#22077329)
This isn't exactly related, but it's one of my favorite blog posts.

http://www.michaeleisen.org/blog/?p=358

Re:An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t h... by ComputerGuru on Saturday January 18, 2020 @02:11AM (#22082901)
One of the algorithms could be capped at $1000 for their inventory.
Re:An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t h... by mhb on Thursday January 16, 2020 @09:05AM (#22064584)
I've long thought that an ant colony should be seen as a single individual, rather than a group.

The great E.O. Wilson has had similar ruminations: https://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/23/books/review/Jones-t.html

Re:An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t h... by ds0 on Thursday January 16, 2020 @09:54AM (#22065023)
I recall termite colonies also have interesting an interesting behaviour that resembles an analogue for an organ that other animals are acquainted with: lungs.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2015/09/how-termites-...

Re:An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t h... by TheEndless on Friday January 17, 2020 @04:40PM (#22079693)
An interesting religious motif example would be something akin to the body of Christ. We're all members of a larger function or culture.
Re:An ant colony has memories its individual members don’t h... by BurningFrog on Thursday January 16, 2020 @01:56PM (#22067645)
Ants in one colony are 75% genetically identical.

I think this is the main argument for looking at a colony as a distributed individual organism.