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Re:No Job Is Too Small for Compact Geostationary Satellites by ggm on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @07:12PM (#22060348)
My belief is that (within limits) the rule about smallsats and LEO is different: you don't need planned de-orbit because they have short persistence due to drag and almost no significant hit-the-ground risk because they burn up.

GEO has to have de-orbit burns or parking orbit. Different. And it is governed by law, within the limits.

Re:No Job Is Too Small for Compact Geostationary Satellites by Rebelgecko on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @08:14PM (#22060741)
FWIW, junk in LEO can still remain for dozens or even hundreds of years.

Most satellites also don't burn up completely. At least in the US, the current standard is that the odds of a casualty in case of uncontrolled reentry are less than 1 in 10,000. I think that as we see a proliferation of LEO constellations with tens of thousands of smallsats (some of which are almost surely going to be operated by companies that go bankrupt), that standard is going to bite someone in the ass.

Re:No Job Is Too Small for Compact Geostationary Satellites by numpad0 on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @09:05PM (#22061038)
“LEO” is vague, 100km lasts months and 500km could be decades but both called LEO.
Re:No Job Is Too Small for Compact Geostationary Satellites by syedkarim on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @10:48PM (#22061528)
A 1U cubesat at 100km will burn up in a few hours.
Re:No Job Is Too Small for Compact Geostationary Satellites by ummonk on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @08:27PM (#22060804)
Small satellites have a high surface area to mass ratio and thus decay due to drag much faster. I.e. on the order of a few years at most.
Re:No Job Is Too Small for Compact Geostationary Satellites by Rebelgecko on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @09:28PM (#22061167)
What are you considering small or a few years? Smallsats like Starlink is using can take 100+ years to deorbit from drag in LEO (at the 1100km orbits they haven't started deploying to yet— for the orbits they're currently using the deorbit time is on the order of a few years). Even if you're talking about 1U cubesats (~1kg and 10cmx10cmx10cm), those can take decades. The first cubesats ever built are still on orbit.

Going even smaller, there are still small droplets of coolant in LEO from nuclear reactors that the USSR launched 50 years ago. The droplets are more or less spheres with diameters in the 5mm-5cm range.

Re:No Job Is Too Small for Compact Geostationary Satellites by andai on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @10:13PM (#22061367)
This is fascinating. What are (or were) those reactors for?
Re:No Job Is Too Small for Compact Geostationary Satellites by Rebelgecko on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @10:34PM (#22061460)
There were used to power Soviet reconnaissance satellites that used radar to track ships. The satellites themselves were in really low orbits (~200km), and they didn't want to use solar panels due to additional drag and inability to generate power at night. When the satellites were deactivated, they were supposed to eject their nuclear reactors (actual nuclear reactors, not RTGs[1]) to a higher orbit before the satellite reentered. The program had a number of "oopsies". A lot of the reactors leaked, and are actually one of the biggest sources of space junk today. I think they were the #1 source of space junk before China's antisatellite weapon test.

The biggest oopsie was when some of the satellites malfunctioned and weren't able to eject their reactors. One of them landed in the ocean. The other didn't— it ended up spreading radioactive debris across a good chunk of northern Canada. Some of the pieces of debris where radioactive enough to cause serious harm, so it was fortunate that the junk landed in unpopulated areas.

[1]: RTGs are how most nuclear powered things in space generate electricity— https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_ge...

Re:No Job Is Too Small for Compact Geostationary Satellites by kohtatsu on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @08:18PM (#22060760)
I think 1 in 10,000 is high, there's a lot of land out there, and sea.
Re:No Job Is Too Small for Compact Geostationary Satellites by kaffeemitsahne on Thursday January 16, 2020 @07:38AM (#22063920)
It almost seems like you would have to try really hard if you want a 0.0001 chance of hitting a person on deorbit.
Re:No Job Is Too Small for Compact Geostationary Satellites by aaronax on Thursday January 16, 2020 @08:46AM (#22064416)
I think one death total, to save megabucks on each of hundreds or thousands of satellites, is an OK situation.
Re:No Job Is Too Small for Compact Geostationary Satellites by colechristensen on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @08:03PM (#22060668)
The title is specifically about GEO satellites
Re:No Job Is Too Small for Compact Geostationary Satellites by ggm on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @10:53PM (#22061549)
Compact GEO.. GEOO..... (sigh) good point. So they're not in unregulated space (does that even exist?) and have to have a de-orbit or park policy and understand how to effect it, and are governed by the economy they launch from and the territory they fly over, and the risk of litigation from other GEO owners affected by their policy.