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Re:Mailchimp has terminated Stefan Molyneux’s account by dangus on Tuesday January 14, 2020 @02:51PM (#22048557)
“Free speech” is a constitutional concept that defines how the government is allowed to interact with citizens.

Freedom of speech does not exist for private institutions and companies.

I would direct anyone who has a problem with this to the Mailchimp terms of use and acceptable use policy, which state:

> Mailchimp may refuse service, close accounts of any Members, and change eligibility requirements at any time.

Additionally, here’s a link to the acceptable use policy, which excludes a number of generally legal but undesired uses: https://mailchimp.com/legal/acceptable_use/

In my mind, extremist views don’t need to be defended by businesses and companies. In fact, refusing service to those extremists is a great way to moderate our society. A great way for Stefan to not get kicked off of platforms would be to stop spreading white supremacy.

To give you an identical analogy, if a couple of people told the bartender that I was harassing and hitting on them, the bartender could kick me out of the bar. I don’t have a right to a trial or due process. I don’t have the right to explain myself or present evidence. I have to accept that. But generally, that won’t happen to me if I just act like a well-adjusted human being.

Re:Mailchimp has terminated Stefan Molyneux’s account by belorn on Tuesday January 14, 2020 @07:21PM (#22050635)
When people bring up the technicalities of freedom of speech it really helps if all the technical aspects is mentioned. Freedom of speech, as part of the US constitution, only defines how governments may behave. For private institutions and companies located in the US there is a very related law called anti-discrimination. When a company refuse service based on religious, political or other protected classes (defined by federal law and each individual state), people may think in terms of free speech but the technical correct term is then anti-discrimination.

In the EU however the term freedom of speech can be used as the EU declaration of human rights does not define governments.

To give an identical analogy, a bartender can not kick you out if they notice that you are Jewish. They can kick you out if you are harassing people, but they can end up in court having to explain themselves and present evidence that the refusing of service was not done on the basis of disagreeing with peoples views and beliefs.

Re:Mailchimp has terminated Stefan Molyneux’s account by boutad on Tuesday January 14, 2020 @02:54PM (#22048595)
Free speech is a principle. The first amendment states that the US government shall not violate this principle. The principle and the amendment are separate things.
Re:Mailchimp has terminated Stefan Molyneux’s account by GaryNumanVevo on Tuesday January 14, 2020 @03:20PM (#22048865)
Hate speech is anti-free speech as a principle. Hate speech, which Moleyneux is known for, is actively trying to step on the free speech of others.
Re:Mailchimp has terminated Stefan Molyneux’s account by corporate_shi11 on Tuesday January 14, 2020 @05:46PM (#22050034)
"Hate speech" is one of the most abused terms in political discourse today, so often being used by people as a mere political cudgel.

Ignoring that for a moment, how is Moleyneux preventing others from reaching an audience, which would be the definition of stifling speech? It seems the only groups actually responsible for doing that are the social media companies so fond of deplatforming people because of either capricious and arbitrary enforcement of standards or public pressure campaigns.

Why don't you just come out and admit it: you don't like what Moleyneux has to say, and you are happy he is being deplatformed. Simple as that.

I don't like what Moleyneux has to say either, but capricious deplatforming makes a mockery of free speech.

Re:Mailchimp has terminated Stefan Molyneux’s account by boutad on Tuesday January 14, 2020 @03:28PM (#22048921)
Can you point me to where he is trying to step on the free speech of others? That seems like what you are doing. By saying his ideas are hate, you are trying to stop him from saying them.
Re:Mailchimp has terminated Stefan Molyneux’s account by dangus on Tuesday January 14, 2020 @03:03PM (#22048682)
Free speech is a theory that doesn’t describe anything that actually exists, and it’s used as a crutch to support weirdly political points of outrage.

You can’t say what you want without consequences anywhere in life.

This makes me think of “How To Win Friends and Influence People.” Saying exactly what’s on your mind will rarely get you the ideal outcome you are after.

Re:Mailchimp has terminated Stefan Molyneux’s account by boutad on Tuesday January 14, 2020 @03:05PM (#22048699)
> Freedom of speech is a principle that supports the freedom of an individual or a community to articulate their opinions and ideas without fear of retaliation, censorship, or legal sanction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech

Re:Mailchimp has terminated Stefan Molyneux’s account by gdulli on Tuesday January 14, 2020 @03:35PM (#22048981)
Read just a little further.

> the exercise of these rights carries "special duties and responsibilities" and may "therefore be subject to certain restrictions" when necessary "[f]or respect of the rights or reputation of others" or "[f]or the protection of national security or of public order (order public), or of public health or morals".

> Freedom of speech and expression, therefore, may not be recognized as being absolute, and common limitations or boundaries to freedom of speech relate to libel, slander, obscenity, pornography, sedition, incitement, fighting words, classified information, copyright violation, trade secrets, food labeling, non-disclosure agreements, the right to privacy, dignity, the right to be forgotten, public security, and perjury.

The real world is messy and rights can't be absolute because each could encroach on others. We try to find the right equilibrium.

Re:Mailchimp has terminated Stefan Molyneux’s account by boutad on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @09:00AM (#22054144)
> reputation of others

This sounds like slander or libel. It also seems that is what is being done to Molyneux, not by him.

> protection of national security or of public order (order public)

This sounds like making threats. Is Molyneux making threats against people or calling for actual violence?

> of public health or morals

Blasphemy or obscenity laws? I thought that we were past these things in the west.

> The real world is messy and rights can't be absolute because each could encroach on others.

Is Molyneux infringing on the rights of other or are others trying to infringe the rights of Molyneux?

Re:Mailchimp has terminated Stefan Molyneux’s account by viro on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @09:52AM (#22054608)
It wouldn't be very hard to argue scientific racisms very purpose is to encroach on the rights of other races. By painting them as lesser and dehumanizing them.
Re:Mailchimp has terminated Stefan Molyneux’s account by boutad on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @11:11AM (#22055446)
Considering he is an anarchist, I don't think he is trying to encroach on the rights of anyone.
Re:Mailchimp has terminated Stefan Molyneux’s account by corporate_shi11 on Tuesday January 14, 2020 @07:07PM (#22050548)
All of what you say is true. And I believe that social media platforms deplatforming people according to arbitrary judgements or public pressure is unacceptable in a free society. It deviates from the "right equilibrium".
Re:Mailchimp has terminated Stefan Molyneux’s account by corporate_shi11 on Tuesday January 14, 2020 @05:54PM (#22050101)
Great, I would like to see people deplatformed for advocating illegal immigration and racism against white people. Such people are rampant on social media, yet I doubt many of the same people eager to get Moleyneux deplatformed would be as passionate about deplatforming those offenders.

The point is that if we are willing to accept arbitrary deplatforming - which is necessarily the case if we accept deplatforming at all - then speech can be arbitrarily stifled by a few executives, or a few angry mobs. This is intolerable.

Your analogy to the bartender is not appropriate, because we are talking about platforms which explicitly facilitate speech and outreach to millions. Presence in a bar is quite different.