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Re:Ocean cleaning device succeeds in removing plastic for th... by voisin on Sunday January 12, 2020 @10:20AM (#22026631)
“When enough of us act as consumers not to buy polluting products, producers will respond to products not selling by producing less.”

This argument bothers me a great deal. It takes a simple solution (regulation) and turns it into a complicated distributed solution (convincing the majority of consumers to make the right decision) prone to disinformation campaigns, green washing, confusion, and simple lack of attention.

We have governments for reasons. This is one of those reasons. They need to do their job and stop using our behaviour as an excuse for inaction.

Re:Ocean cleaning device succeeds in removing plastic for th... by the_gastropod on Sunday January 12, 2020 @10:32AM (#22026692)
These things are not mutually exclusive. You can (and should) both do your best to consume as ethically as possible, and advocate, vote, etc. for action. I find it troubling how readily so many of us are to change nothing about our behavior and point the finger at some scapegoat. The unfortunate reality is:

- the more money we spend on <thing> the more <thing>’s manufacturer has to lobby for its continued existence

- the more we standardize that product as “normal” we make regulating it less politically viable (see blowback re: plastic straws)

Re:Ocean cleaning device succeeds in removing plastic for th... by galangalalgol on Sunday January 12, 2020 @12:38PM (#22027623)
Paper straws are horrible! They get soggy so quickly! Also paper bags cause more harm than plastic, and it wouldn't surprise me if the same were true of straws. At home i use stainless straws but when I'm out I refuse paper straws. Why can't someone make a recyclable straw?
Re:Ocean cleaning device succeeds in removing plastic for th... by NeedMoreTea on Sunday January 12, 2020 @01:20PM (#22027966)
Recyclable is worse than reusable, both are worse than reducing use in the first place. Best option is giving a drink in a mug or cup. Customer can provide a takeaway container or bring their own mug. All behaviour needs to be adjusted -- individual, and corporate via regulation.

This whole expectation of disposability is the problem in the first place.

> paper bags cause more harm than plastic

Citation needed. As I understand it, they can be more harmful if unsustainable methods of production are used. Unbleached paper from sustainable forestry should be less harmful. It may not be cheaper. Cheapest should not be the only aim. c.f. regulation.

Re:Ocean cleaning device succeeds in removing plastic for th... by galangalalgol on Sunday January 12, 2020 @10:31PM (#22031602)
I would say cheapest should be one aim, but that we should try to include all the costs.
Re:Ocean cleaning device succeeds in removing plastic for th... by edflsafoiewq on Sunday January 12, 2020 @12:49PM (#22027717)
What do people use straws for in the first place? Just drink out of the cup.
Re:Ocean cleaning device succeeds in removing plastic for th... by galangalalgol on Sunday January 12, 2020 @01:08PM (#22027874)
Yeah I agree. I mostly get a straw for ice tea, which comes in styrofoam... Styrofoam is unfortunate. It is super easy to recycle, but too inefficient to transport. I've been trying to come up with a solar powered Styrofoam recycler that stores up blocks of solid polystyrene for pickup. The hard part is knowing people will put other things in to mess it up. Otherwise a tank of gasoline to dissolve it with a closed evaporation loop is all you would need.
Re:Ocean cleaning device succeeds in removing plastic for th... by hombre_fatal on Sunday January 12, 2020 @01:39PM (#22028146)
Most common reason to use a straw is when drinking from a vessel that's full of ice.

It's funny how luxurious a simple ice-filled straw-included one-time-use styrofoam cup of Coke from the McDonald's drive-thru is, really, and how much we take it for granted.

Re:Ocean cleaning device succeeds in removing plastic for th... by edflsafoiewq on Sunday January 12, 2020 @12:50PM (#22027726)
In a democracy, getting regulation passed is also a complicated distributed problem subject to all those problems.
Re:Ocean cleaning device succeeds in removing plastic for th... by syshum on Sunday January 12, 2020 @11:21AM (#22027046)
>>We have governments for reasons.

How Authoritarian of you, what other area's of life should the governments of the world control for everyone denying them their human right of choice?

It is sad to me that as civilization "advances" more and more people want to go back to a time where people were subjects of their government, instead of free people. I know it has only been a few hundred years of human civilization where people have had any kind of freedom, why are we so willing to give all of that up?

The types of invasive regulations that will require increasing food costs, as well as lowering shelf life for every day people will cause massive problems for not only the poor but the middle class as well.

What is next mandatory vegan artisanal organic diet to save the climate? Each meal having to be hand picked by a local farmer that day.

Re:Ocean cleaning device succeeds in removing plastic for th... by Supermancho on Sunday January 12, 2020 @07:48PM (#22030931)
> It is sad to me that as civilization "advances" more and more people want to go back to a time where people were subjects of their government, instead of free people.

It's not just an arbitrary decision, promoted by some power structure. Our phylogeny is conclusively based around groups coordinating for optimal reward.

ie Cooperation has worked out better than being individuals.

"Free People" is a meaningless categorization without social context. Even anarchists have labels and limits, even if they are individually arbitrary. Deciding how to behave individually is not a decision in a vacuum when living in the same regional bounds as others. In modern times, the region is global, as the impacts of an individual utilizing technology can have recognizable impact.

Re:Ocean cleaning device succeeds in removing plastic for th... by andrekandre on Sunday January 12, 2020 @03:07PM (#22028863)
> It is sad to me that as civilization "advances" more and more people want to go back to a time where people were subjects of their government, instead of free people.

if you live in a real democracy, is it really authoritarian that a majority decide that we want to live in a cleaner world?

the earth isn’t some computer program where you have infinite ram and can just alloc as much as you want, at some point you start pushing other process out of memory, and you wonder why stuff starts crashing and freezing...

(i’ll stop with the computer analogy now ^^)

Re:Ocean cleaning device succeeds in removing plastic for th... by syshum on Sunday January 12, 2020 @03:48PM (#22029201)
>>if you live in a real democracy,

I don't, nor do I want to. I live in a Constitutional Representative Republic. where the majority is not allowed by the constitution to invoke their mob rule on others

The Founders of my nation did not trust democracy any more than they trusted monarch's and I agree with them

I desire individualism, and individual rights not democracy and mob rule

>>the earth isn’t some computer program where you have infinite ram and can just alloc as much as you want, at some point you start pushing other process out of memory, and you wonder why stuff starts crashing and freezing...

I 100% agree with this, I disagree that a Authoritarian Centrally managed government is the best or ideal way to allocate though resources

I am not going to get into a computer analogy, but I tend to following Geo-Libertarian philosophy as a structure for human organization

Re:Ocean cleaning device succeeds in removing plastic for th... by dragonwriter on Sunday January 12, 2020 @03:56PM (#22029266)
> I live in a Constitutional Representative Republic. where the majority is not allowed by the constitution to invoke their mob rule on others

Instead, that privilege is reserved to a minority privileged by geographic distribution, which is much better.*

* If you are in the privileged minority; not so much otherwise.