Re:Linus: Don't Use ZFS
by notacoward on Friday January 10, 2020 @04:22PM
(#22015674)
I debated some of this with Bonwick (and Cantrill who really had no business being involved but he's pernicious that way) at the time. That blog post is, frankly, a bit misleading. The storage "stack" isn't really a stack. It's a DAG. Multiple kinds of devices, multiple filesystems plus raw block users (yes they still exist and sometimes even have reason to), multiple kinds of functionality in between. An LVM API allows some of this to have M users above and N providers below, for M+N total connections instead of M*N. To borrow Bonwick's own condescending turn of phrase, that's math. The "telescoping" he mentions works fine when your storage stack really is a stack, which might have made sense in a not-so-open Sun context, but in the broader world where multiple options are available at every level it's still bad engineering.
Re:Linus: Don't Use ZFS
by throw0101a on Friday January 10, 2020 @10:54PM
(#22018002)
> ... but in the broader world where multiple options are available at every level it's still bad engineering.
When Sun added ZFS to Solaris, they did not get rid of UFS and/or SVM, nor prevent Veritas from being installed. When FreeBSD added ZFS, they did not get rid of UFS or GEOM either.
If an admin wanted or wants (or needs) to use the 'old' way of doing things they can.
Sorry, I'm pernicious in what way, exactly?
Re:Linus: Don't Use ZFS
by notacoward on Friday January 10, 2020 @05:08PM
(#22016141)
Heh. I was wondering if you were following (perhaps participating in) this thread. "Pernicious" was perhaps a meaner word than I meant. How about "ubiquitous"?
At the time that ZFS was written (early 2000s) and released to the public (2006), this was not a thing and the idea was somewhat novel / 'controversial'. Jeff Bonwick, ZFS co-creator, lays out their thinking:
* https://blogs.oracle.com/bonwick/rampant-layering-violation
Remember: this was a time when Veritas Volume Manager (VxVM) and other software still ruled the enterprise world.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veritas_Storage_Foundation