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Re:Decreasing human body temperature in the U.S. since the i... by harry8 on Thursday January 09, 2020 @06:24PM (#22006969)
Decreasing over time. The following example from Feynman's rightly extremely famous "Cargo Cult Science" lecture is extremely relevant. Now it may not be what is going on here at all, but that probably needs to be established somehow before deciding that some other alternative (eg instrumentation changes, everyone's actual temperature has changed rather than just its recording, whatever other theory).

And if you haven't seen it, it's fantastic. As is the whole lecture, 5 minutes you really won't regret.

"We have learned a lot from experience about how to handle some of the ways we fool ourselves. One example: Millikan measured the charge on an electron by an experiment with falling oil drops and got an answer which we now know not to be quite right. It’s a little bit off, because he had the incorrect value for the viscosity of air. It’s interesting to look at the history of measurements of the charge of the electron, after Millikan. If you plot them as a function of time, you find that one is a little bigger than Millikan’s, and the next one’s a little bit bigger than that, and the next one’s a little bit bigger than that, until finally they settle down to a number which is higher.

Why didn’t they discover that the new number was higher right away? It’s a thing that scientists are ashamed of—this history—because it’s apparent that people did things like this: When they got a number that was too high above Millikan’s, they thought something must be wrong—and they would look for and find a reason why something might be wrong. When they got a number closer to Millikan’s value they didn’t look so hard. And so they eliminated the numbers that were too far off, and did other things like that." [1]

Needless to say the actual charge on an electron is very likely to have been constant over that period rather than trending steadily upward.

[1] http://calteches.library.caltech.edu/51/2/CargoCult.htm

Re:Decreasing human body temperature in the U.S. since the i... by mannykannot on Thursday January 09, 2020 @10:48PM (#22008173)
In the case of Millikan's experiment, we are considering something in the order of a dozen repetitions. With these temperature measurements, there are thousands. This alone makes it rather implausible that we have a false signal that is the consequence of an initial error.

Furthermore, unlike with the charge of the electron, there is no strong reason to believe the value is a constant. In fact, it is known to be variable, and that variability has been recognized as diagnostic (which is why we have a lot of measurements.)

As others have pointed out, the authors have considered, in detail, several conceivable sources of systematic error. We probably should not approach studies with the expectation that the people performing them are naive.

Re:Decreasing human body temperature in the U.S. since the i... by AndrewKemendo on Friday January 10, 2020 @11:31PM (#22018146)
I wholly concur that we should assume competence in the researchers and their stated confounding factors.

That said I think skepticism is always healthy when done in good faith and is a driving factor in increasing our knowledge.

Re:Decreasing human body temperature in the U.S. since the i... by cjensen on Thursday January 09, 2020 @08:15PM (#22007641)
That's an interesting phenomena, but it is definitely not what has happened here. The introduction talks about it a bit, but the discussion really gets into it showing why it cannot be measurement error.
Re:Decreasing human body temperature in the U.S. since the i... by maxfan8 on Thursday January 09, 2020 @08:48PM (#22007776)
I agree. My favorite part is when they examine average temperature by birth decade within each cohort, under the assumption that differences in birth decade will not affect the accuracy of the measuring technique.

> To minimize these biases, we examined changes in body temperature by birth decade within each cohort under the assumption that the method of thermometry would not be biased on birth year.

Re:Decreasing human body temperature in the U.S. since the i... by Iv on Friday January 10, 2020 @12:34AM (#22008579)
Interestingly, here in Japan, I learned that they consider a lower body temperature normal. I always learned in France that the normal body temperature was 37.7C, some people say 37.3. Can be lower just after waking up.

For my Japanese wife, 37C means you may starting to get sick. you should be in the 36s.

Just an anecdote, but the normal temperature could vary among population, latitude, weather conditions...

Re:Decreasing human body temperature in the U.S. since the i... by brutt on Friday January 10, 2020 @01:05AM (#22008694)
Normal body temperature is 36.6°C (97.9°F) even in France, but can be up to 37°C sometimes or in some places. Temperature of 37.7°C is symptom of sickness.

https://www.bmj.com/content/359/bmj.j5468

Results:

In a diverse cohort of 35 488 patients (mean age 52.9 years, 64% women, 41% non-white race) with 243 506 temperature measurements, mean temperature was 36.6°C (95% range 35.7-37.3°C, 99% range 35.3-37.7°C). Several demographic factors were linked to individual level temperature, with older people the coolest (–0.021°C for every decade, P<0.001) and African-American women the hottest (versus white men: 0.052°C, P<0.001). Several comorbidities were linked to lower temperature (eg, hypothyroidism: –0.013°C, P=0.01) or higher temperature (eg, cancer: 0.020, P<0.001), as were physiological measurements (eg, body mass index: 0.002 per m/kg2, P<0.001). Overall, measured factors collectively explained only 8.2% of individual temperature variation. Despite this, unexplained temperature variation was a significant predictor of subsequent mortality: controlling for all measured factors, an increase of 0.149°C (1 SD of individual temperature in the data) was linked to 8.4% higher one year mortality (P=0.014).

Re:Decreasing human body temperature in the U.S. since the i... by Iv on Saturday January 11, 2020 @10:35PM (#22024295)
I found something super interesting!

The EN and FR wikipedia state different values.

FR:

> On considère généralement que la température basale usuelle du corps humain est de 37,0 °C, [...] Une température corporelle normale se situe entre 36,1 °C et 37,8 °C

Baseline : 37C. Normal range, [36.1 - 37.8]

EN:

No baseline, provided,just a range:

> The normal human body temperature range is typically stated as 36.5–37.5 °C (97.7–99.5 °F).

The French version explains that for a long time, until the 1980s, everybody assumed correct a study made in 1868 about the body temperature that found 37.0 - 37.5 to be the normal range in healthy adults.

It suggests that the declining prevalence of infections in the population may be the exaplanation of the lowering of the average body temperature.

After all, one of the main causes of rising temperature is an active immune system. Lower temperatures in the population are actually good news.

Re:Decreasing human body temperature in the U.S. since the i... by trhway on Friday January 10, 2020 @01:00AM (#22008674)
In USSR/Russia 36.6C has always been considered ideally normal (and until this very moment i thought that it was normal for the whole human race :). The same way - crossing 37C means you're sick.

It probably may also depend on where the temperature is taken. In USSR/Russia it is in the armpit, which is probably of lower temperature than anus/mouth which is where the temperature is taken in many other countries.

Re:Decreasing human body temperature in the U.S. since the i... by Nasrudith on Friday January 10, 2020 @08:42AM (#22010836)
That has me wondering how much average height and square-cube law implications like surface area ratio changing what they consider "the norm" has to do with it.

BMI as a health metric is downright lazy mathematically in that it doesn't use a cubic portion and thus gives more undue "slack" in its judgement for shorter and less for taller.

I am uncertain what aspect if any dominates. It could be that without sufficent HVAC exposure the local climate causes the body to adapt and dominate. Granted not allowing that adaptation may not just be "softness" and "disconnection from nature from arrogance". Apparently according to some accounts colonialists in the tropic were looked upon by natives as fools and lunatics for being physically active during the hot and bright sun instead of resting then and saving activity for when it is cooler.

Re:Decreasing human body temperature in the U.S. since the i... by vikiomega9 on Thursday January 09, 2020 @10:37PM (#22008131)
> viscosity of air

Why were people not able to find this error?

Re:Decreasing human body temperature in the U.S. since the i... by CydeWeys on Friday January 10, 2020 @12:15AM (#22008495)
Eventually they did. If you're asking why it wasn't found sooner ... maybe it was hard to notice?
Re:Decreasing human body temperature in the U.S. since the i... by Nasrudith on Friday January 10, 2020 @08:44AM (#22010849)
Perhaps it was due to lack of tight control of variables like humidity and temperature nor the ease of processing repeated experiments across many conditions, especially if they never recorded those variables.
Re:Decreasing human body temperature in the U.S. since the i... by SomewhatLikely on Friday January 10, 2020 @12:33AM (#22008569)
That sounds an awful lot like updating our prior beliefs based on data a la Bayesian modeling. So it's actually not a terrible way to go about updating noisy estimates.