The Modern Mind May Be 100k Years Old (2016)

Re:The Modern Mind May Be 100k Years Old (2016) by n4r9 on Tuesday January 07, 2020 @03:38PM (#21984523)

Writing is also a far greater (/ less likely) achievement than many people realise. You need a language, enough social structure to create a demand for written instructions/messages beyond simple pictures, and an Einstein-level linguistic genius to figure out how to break down and codify language utterances in a way that can readily be learnt and understood by the general population.

Some languages such as Guniyandi have only recently undergone this conversion [0], in fact there are likely thousands of languages still without writetn forms [1]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gooniyandi

[1] https://www.ethnologue.com/enterprise-faq/how-many-languages...

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Re:The Modern Mind May Be 100k Years Old (2016) by iguy on Tuesday January 07, 2020 @03:52PM (#21984686)

But writing didn't (IIRC) start with writing down speech. It started with accountancy, with recoding taxes payed and owed. So it arises with agricultural states, it's part of what lets a king rule so many peasants that merely having his brothers remember who owes how much doesn't work anymore.

Figuring out that it could be used to write sentences took a few millennia after that. And only after that came enough simplification for people other than palace/temple employees to learn it.

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Re:The Modern Mind May Be 100k Years Old (2016) by n4r9 on Tuesday January 07, 2020 @06:05PM (#21986212)

Interesting. I looked this up and there's a Wikipedia page listing the earliest written accounts [0]. Looks like joint earliest are Egyptian hieroglyphs in the tomb of Seth-Peribsen [1] and ancient Sumerian tablets [2]-[3]. It seems like a lot of early writing was also concerned with religion although a lot of the slightly later writing did cover economic and administrative records.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_first_wri...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seth-Peribsen

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructions_of_Shuruppak

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kesh_temple_hymn

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Re:The Modern Mind May Be 100k Years Old (2016) by iguy on Wednesday January 08, 2020 @10:23AM (#21992167)

These seem to define writing to mean only things with which you can write sentences, which is fair enough, but excludes earlier use of symbols for counting (of taxes!). I have in mind things like [1], or this from [2]:

"The original Sumerian writing system derives from a system of clay tokens used to represent commodities. By the end of the 4th millennium BC, this had evolved into a method of keeping accounts, using a round-shaped stylus impressed into soft clay at different angles for recording numbers. This was gradually augmented with pictographic writing by using a sharp stylus to indicate what was being counted. Round-stylus and sharp-stylus writing were gradually replaced around 2700–2500 BC by writing using a wedge-shaped stylus (hence the term cuneiform), at first only for logograms, but developed to include phonetic elements by the 29th century BC. About 2600 BC, cuneiform began to represent syllables of the Sumerian language."

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ancient_numeral_sys...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_writing#Proto-writi...

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Re:The Modern Mind May Be 100k Years Old (2016) by n4r9 on Wednesday January 08, 2020 @07:33PM (#21997342)

Ah, yes I failed to pick up on that distinction in your last post. Now I almost want to add "sophisticated trade system" to the list of written language prerequisites.

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Re:The Modern Mind May Be 100k Years Old (2016) by WalterBright on Tuesday January 07, 2020 @04:04PM (#21984819)

> Writing is also a far greater (/ less likely) achievement than many people realise.

The monumental inventions are:

1. writing

2. paper

3. printing press

4. computers

5. internet

because they are ways to store and disseminate knowledge.

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Re:The Modern Mind May Be 100k Years Old (2016) by bad_user on Tuesday January 07, 2020 @04:32PM (#21985141)

Spoken language is also used to spread knowledge from the wise to the young.

This is sometimes called culture.

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Re:The Modern Mind May Be 100k Years Old (2016) by WalterBright on Tuesday January 07, 2020 @04:54PM (#21985381)

Spoken language evolved, it wasn't invented.

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