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Re:Happy Public Domain Day: Gershwin’s “Rhapsody in Blue” Is... by crazygringo on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @04:50PM (#21930960)
Indeed -- transcribing sheet music into MIDI is generally not going to be 100% automatic, whoever is doing it is going to have necessary artistic choices to make -- what metronome speeds do tempo descriptions convert to, how much longer will a fermata hold, what levels of volume the different dynamic markings will hold.

You could take a "pure" mapping of just the notes and relative durations... but then you'd wind up with what would essentially sound like a weird robotic "player piano" version of the music at strange speeds that would be, well... pretty bad.

Re:Happy Public Domain Day: Gershwin’s “Rhapsody in Blue” Is... by Eric_WVGG on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @05:39PM (#21931233)
A player piano doesn’t necessarily have to sound bad.

Back in 1993 Yamaha built a device that could read piano rolls personally “recorded” by Gershwin by hand (he would hammer them out for money in his spare time), and then played back on a modern player piano. The resulting album is one of my all-time favorite albums.

Yamaha still sells these “scans” (on 3.5” floppy!) for their player pianos, and they could certainly be reverse engineered, but I imagine they are considered derivative works and covered by their own copyright.

https://apnews.com/fb3f8c3bc3305506f57120df0755f9d8 https://youtu.be/_kIpr6nSvjI

Re:Happy Public Domain Day: Gershwin’s “Rhapsody in Blue” Is... by crazygringo on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @06:24PM (#21931512)
Interesting! Well, if you perform intentionally without dynamics, the player piano is certainly a valuable artistic choice in its own right. More like a harpsichord, in a way.

But I'll point out that the YouTube performance you linked to isn't a player piano at all -- it's an actual recording, which Gershwin overdubbed to be two pianos.

While player pianos that could incorporate dynamics existed, I'm not sure they were common, and I'm also not clear if there were any that incorporated playtime "per note" dynamics as opposed to generally "overall" dynamics that were added in via a separate mechanism.

But nevertheless yes -- there did exist some player pianos that had the capability of being more expressive than the normal single-volume ones!

Re:Happy Public Domain Day: Gershwin’s “Rhapsody in Blue” Is... by yesenadam on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @06:58PM (#21931732)
>I'm also not clear if there were any that incorporated playtime "per note" dynamics

This[0] is a reproducing piano recording Ravel made in the 20s and was recorded from a Duo-Art piano in the 60s. Hearing Ravel play his own stuff a few years ago radically changed my idea of how Ravel's music should sound. (Pianist, I'd been playing Ravel for a couple of decades before that) This[2] has Prokofiev playing his own music.

"Many famous composers from around the world played their own works for the reproducing piano: Edvard Grieg, 1906 in Leipzig; Alexander Scriabin, 1910 in Moscow; Gabriel Fauré, c. 1913 in Paris; Nikolai Medtner, c. 1925 in New York."[1]

"This video is a practical demonstration and overview of how the Aeolian Duo-Art pneumatic reproducing player piano works, including how the system plays expressively by controlling the loudness of notes played with perforations on the roll."[3]

[0] https://archive.org/details/RavelPlaysRavel

[1] https://www.allclassical.org/player-piano-rolls-listening-to...

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uMRD2o6dJo

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-XrDw04P2M

Re:Happy Public Domain Day: Gershwin’s “Rhapsody in Blue” Is... by Eric_WVGG on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @08:13PM (#21932123)
I’m pretty sure “overdubbed” in this case meant “playing over the piano roll a second time.” Not an actual recording.

This YouTube rip sounds a little crummy to me, though, I’d suggest finding Gershwin Plays Gershwin on Spotify or your streaming service of choice...

Re:Happy Public Domain Day: Gershwin’s “Rhapsody in Blue” Is... by crazygringo on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @08:41PM (#21932259)
They're drastically different, though.

The YouTube link you referenced is an actual recording -- the notes are all distinctly different dynamics, and there's plenty of background hiss. It's a real recording, full of life, on a real piano, and genuinely overdubbed. It's not "a little crummy" -- to the contrary, it's an invaluable historical record.

On the other hand, the "Gershwin Plays Gershwin" album is a genuine player piano, but the Rhapsody in Blue is totally different -- it has zero dynamics, everything is exactly the same volume. [1] It's interesting to hear, for sure -- but more as a historical curiosity, since no pianist would ever perform everything at the same volume unless limited technologically. Your original link is Gershwin's full interpretation. In contrast, his player piano version is nothing like what he would have performed live, but rather adapted to the technological limitations.

[1] https://open.spotify.com/track/2XSBXz4uDvx1PQPYJWQpcK?si=EO3...

Re:Happy Public Domain Day: Gershwin’s “Rhapsody in Blue” Is... by andrewaylett on Thursday January 02, 2020 @08:16AM (#21935087)
Telarc have a number of albums of music reproduced from piano rolls -- this https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000009RCS/ is one of my favourite collections of classical works.

The sleeve notes tell of how modern scanning allowed a more complete reproduction of the notes played than contemporary players allowed, which by all accounts were already pretty good.

Re:Happy Public Domain Day: Gershwin’s “Rhapsody in Blue” Is... by eitally on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @11:23PM (#21933025)
And here's the researcher discussing the project: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqOtLSuPCJY
Re:Happy Public Domain Day: Gershwin’s “Rhapsody in Blue” Is... by lonelappde on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @07:40PM (#21931940)
What if I write a program that does that translation agnostically of the specific work being translated?

And what if my program is parametrized by an ML model of unknown training data?

Re:Happy Public Domain Day: Gershwin’s “Rhapsody in Blue” Is... by lmm on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @10:46PM (#21932867)
> What if I write a program that does that translation agnostically of the specific work being translated?

Then that program will likely produce non-copyrighted output for non-copyrighted input. But it's also likely going to sound pretty bad.

> And what if my program is parametrized by an ML model of unknown training data?

Then its output could be considered a derivative work of every work in that training corpus, and anyone whose creative work went into that training data will have a copyright claim on the results.

Re:Happy Public Domain Day: Gershwin’s “Rhapsody in Blue” Is... by mantap on Thursday January 02, 2020 @02:00AM (#21933512)
> Then its output could be considered a derivative work of every work in that training corpus, and anyone whose creative work went into that training data will have a copyright claim on the results.

Depends how tech savvy the judge is. An ML model is not really like a copy or reproduction, it's much more like a person's brain in that it aims to take general patterns from various sources.