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Re:Airplanes and Accounting Games: The Coming Boeing Collapse? by Alupis on Thursday December 19, 2019 @05:39PM (#21840037)
All Airbus airliners (the only other serious airline manufacturer in the world) are fully fly-by-wire and require computers and sensors to even get off the ground, let alone maintain level flight.

Unstable flight profiles are not foreign in aircraft, and requiring computer systems to maintain stable flight is nothing new.

The problem is entirely how this specific system was implemented... and that can be fixed.

Re:Airplanes and Accounting Games: The Coming Boeing Collapse? by addicted44 on Thursday December 19, 2019 @05:51PM (#21840095)
The fact that Airbus are fly by wire doesn't mean they are "unstable".

They might be, but fly by wire does not imply that.

For the record, I don't believe Airbus plans are unstable in the way the MAX is, whose instability, from what I understand, came about because they were trying to fit larger engines on the original 737 frame (to prevent pilot retraining), and so had to move the wings higher.

Re:Airplanes and Accounting Games: The Coming Boeing Collapse? by johannes1234321 on Thursday December 19, 2019 @06:04PM (#21840193)
In some avionics podcast A380 pilots described that that huge beast is a quite good glider. This makes sense since you want to reduce fuel usage and just enjoy smooth sailing.

Something like an F-16 however is less stable and requires constant adjustment of flaps etc. there dynamic properties of air to air dogfight are more important.

Re:Airplanes and Accounting Games: The Coming Boeing Collapse? by henryfjordan on Thursday December 19, 2019 @05:52PM (#21840098)
I'm not saying unstable planes cannot be built, just that I don't trust a company that's already had 2 planes go down to get it right.

A quick google search seemed to imply most unstable airframes were military or experimental, not commercial. Unstable airframes are not appropriate for commercial airliners unless you can point to a good reason. "We don't want to train pilots" is a bad reason. The FAA should have pushed back very hard on this point.

Personally I think the flaws in the 737-MAX design process were so deep that it would be safest to just scrap the plane. It's not that the issues cannot be fixed, but rather that we'd be better off starting over from scratch knowing that good design principles will be followed the whole time.

Re:Airplanes and Accounting Games: The Coming Boeing Collapse? by mlyle on Thursday December 19, 2019 @06:02PM (#21840174)
It is not "unstable" in that sense.

At high thrust, slow speed, high aoa it is a little too close to neutrally statically stable.

C f. to airliners that can break up from dynamic yaw instability if the yaw dampers fail in some flight regimes.

Re:Airplanes and Accounting Games: The Coming Boeing Collapse? by henryfjordan on Thursday December 19, 2019 @06:10PM (#21840242)
Thanks for explaining! I suppose I've been using "unstable" a bit too liberally in this thread.
Re:Airplanes and Accounting Games: The Coming Boeing Collapse? by ClumsyPilot on Thursday December 19, 2019 @06:11PM (#21840251)
Airbus planes don't fall out of the sky when air speed sensor fails.
Re:Airplanes and Accounting Games: The Coming Boeing Collapse? by benjohnson on Thursday December 19, 2019 @07:05PM (#21840573)
Air France Flight 447 crashed with all souls on board lost when the air speed sensors on the Airbus A330 failed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447

Re:Airplanes and Accounting Games: The Coming Boeing Collapse? by ClumsyPilot on Thursday December 19, 2019 @07:43PM (#21840798)
Have you read about accident you linked?

"It highlighted the role of the co-pilot in stalling the aircraft while the flight computer was under alternate law at high altitude. This "simple but persistent" human error was given as the most direct cause of this accident"