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Re:Building a new Windows 3.1 app in 2019: A Slack Client by tomjen3 on Thursday December 19, 2019 @02:55AM (#21832892)
I can't help but agree with you. Honestly I think it went to hell when we decided that it was acceptable to call an electron app native, but that may have been a symptom, not a cause.
Re:Building a new Windows 3.1 app in 2019: A Slack Client by zanderz on Thursday December 19, 2019 @10:55AM (#21835965)
Some years ago I worked on a very popular Windows desktop C++ program that had to stay small and backwards compatible, which meant only Win32 APIs and homemade libraries. Designers by the dozens would be hired, then get fed up with these limitations and quit, complaining that they wanted to have the freedom to make UIs in HTML and CSS, and that users are used to interacting with Web UIs so everything should look like that.

Later, at a different job, the UI was Electron based, but designers no longer worked in HTML, they used some other tools and it had become the job of engineers to write the HTML and CSS to match.

These trends seem to be driven partly by conventional wisdom about the lowest common denominator among young people in the workforce, e.g. javascript and html are so much easier, let's build everything on those, and next thing you know those have become a given and the next crop of kids will use something new on top of that. Or maybe something like QT will win and native code will become a first class citizen again with secondary support inside browsers via WebAssembly?

Re:Building a new Windows 3.1 app in 2019: A Slack Client by userbinator on Thursday December 19, 2019 @04:43PM (#21839638)
Some years ago I worked on a very popular Windows desktop C++ program that had to stay small and backwards compatible, which meant only Win32 APIs and homemade libraries.

That's funny, because it's exactly the type of job I'd love doing --- and I have been working on stuff like that (native code, mostly Win32, with some hardware/drivers/embedded stuff) for a long time; if you haven't guessed already, I try to stay very far away from the web stuff, even though I know HTML/CSS/JS and can use it if needed.

Re:Building a new Windows 3.1 app in 2019: A Slack Client by tomjen3 on Thursday December 19, 2019 @04:45PM (#21839656)
I mean I am not a fan of C++ (though I don't hate it either), and I love how easy and well libraries for e.g Python works together and how easy they are to find and install, but I don't think it is necessary to go all the way to native code -- Java/Kotlin on the JVM performs pretty well (and you can always outsource the heavy parts to C).
Re:Building a new Windows 3.1 app in 2019: A Slack Client by DaiPlusPlus on Thursday December 19, 2019 @04:09AM (#21833239)
Before Electron people had the arguments about bloated apps when it came to WPF and Qt. And Java apps, like WPF (and most Qt apps I’ve used lately) lacks true integration with native OS widgets so as a user I get an uncanny-valley feeling.

At least with Electron you’re essentially forced to style everything - and ever since Windows 8 (or Windows Vista) Microsoft has been actively uglifying native widgets.

Re:Building a new Windows 3.1 app in 2019: A Slack Client by tomjen3 on Thursday December 19, 2019 @04:41PM (#21839627)
I did consider Java as I was writing it, but at the same time Java is actually pretty fast, but there is no doubt that it doesn't use native components most of the time (there is a gnome toolkit bindings for Java, so it is possible).

Still Java feels speedy, I think because it is compiled and doesn't need wacked workarounds like not having non-floating point numbers.

Re:Building a new Windows 3.1 app in 2019: A Slack Client by DaiPlusPlus on Thursday December 19, 2019 @06:19PM (#21840306)
I’ve never seen Java running on Windows 3.x - how long did they maintain it for? Or did it use Win32S?

Update: ah, Microsoft released their own port in 1997: https://www.cnet.com/news/ie-gets-java-for-windows-3-1/ - I wonder how long they maintained that for.

Re:Building a new Windows 3.1 app in 2019: A Slack Client by jcelerier on Thursday December 19, 2019 @11:02AM (#21836057)
> Before Electron people had the arguments about bloated apps when it came to WPF and Qt.

which is funny when you see that Qt runs on microcontrollers now.