Climate talks break up with no agreement on carbon trading

Re:Climate talks break up with no agreement on carbon trading by Mirioron on Sunday December 15, 2019 @12:43PM (#21797566)

At which point you increase the size of the bureaucracy and the state leading to more government control. A decade or two later there's a financial crisis and the government just happens to tap into the carbon tax fund as a "temporary measure" or perhaps the fund just lends money to the government that the government eventually can't pay back.

I'm saying that whichever way you slice it, it's still possible for this to be abused.

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Re:Climate talks break up with no agreement on carbon trading by anonuser123456 on Sunday December 15, 2019 @01:08PM (#21797767)

Well, not really. If run at the national level, once carbon dividends become ingrained in the public's mind it becomes a political 3rd rail to raid that cookie jar. Welfare benefits are very hard to claw back.

And w.r.t. size of the bureaucracy, not so much either. The size of actual government bureaucracy is quite insignificant compared to size of transfer payments in this case. Like 1% or less.

And this particular tax has fantastic property; since it will drive down carbon use, the amount of tax collected will go down over time, thus reducing it's drag on the economy.

Hardcore market fundamentalists, like myself, love carbon taxes.

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Re:Climate talks break up with no agreement on carbon trading by pbourke on Sunday December 15, 2019 @01:23PM (#21797848)

> Welfare benefits are very hard to claw back.

I agree with your post, but I would note that this is not entirely true in the US. Benefits that such as SNAP and Medicaid that are only used by a vulnerable segment of the population have been a frequent target for clawbacks. Social Security and Medicare are much more resistant to politically-motivated clawbacks yet not resistant to meddling in general since they are not enjoyed equally.

A benefit that exists at the level of “everyone gets $N per month” would seem to be much more resistant to political meddling.

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Re:Climate talks break up with no agreement on carbon trading by Mirioron on Sunday December 15, 2019 @06:42PM (#21799762)

>If run at the national level, once carbon dividends become ingrained in the public's mind it becomes a political 3rd rail to raid that cookie jar.

The US government has a debt problem. The Social Security fund has lent money to the US government. Why can't similar things happen for the carbon tax fund?

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