Things that are illegal to build in most American cities now

Re:Things that are illegal to build in most American cities now by big_chungus on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @10:19PM (#21759252)

Not passing a law does not force you to do anything. It still leaves individuals the freedom to make choices; i.e. I support removing drug restrictions but don't use them myself. Let everyone make his own choice. Your position is the restrictive one, the one where you seek to force me to live as you see fit; not passing a law allows everyone to live according to his own choices. On the other hand, if I transgress against your governmental club, policemen bust down my door at 3 AM and haul me off; there is no such occurrence without a law.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Things that are illegal to build in most American cities now by OJFord on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @04:26AM (#21760902)

(to be clear 'my' position is just assumed for argument's sake)

It's still the laws or not that govern society, it still affects me. You'd like some minimal laws too, as you said, such as preventing people killing each other - that also is restricting other people, for the benefit of the others.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Things that are illegal to build in most American cities now by big_chungus on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @07:27AM (#21761797)

Absolutely, I believe in some very basic stuff, like what you described (enforcing the harm principle). But, someone's drug abuse (for instance) does not harm me, unless I have to pay for the rehab; a lack of zoning may lead to an ugly house, but the closest that comes to harm is failing to provide visual or aesthetic pleasure to me.

However, you claimed restricting one from killing another is for the benefit of the one. Not so, rather it is to prevent undue harm to another. Conceptually, it is the difference between you stealing $100 and me giving you the same.

I also believe in remediating externalities, i.e. no one gets to dump toxic sludge in the river. I simply don't see an ethical case for laws that tell a landowner what he can and can't do with the property.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Things that are illegal to build in most American cities now by OJFord on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @05:46PM (#21767610)

> However, you claimed restricting one from killing another is for the benefit of the one. Not so, rather it is to prevent undue harm to another.

I'm not really sure what you mean, I think we're in agreement here. I said:

> preventing people killing each other - that also is restricting other people, for the benefit of the others.

I'm not arguing that your views are wrong or unethical, just that they can't stand on natural superiority, it's all up for debate, it all impacts others.

(Drug use absolutely impacts others beyond hypotherical tax paying for rehabilitation - there's potential for anti-social behaviour, littering, and smell/noise/etc. in public spaces. I'm not making a judgement on whether that should or shouldn't be available for individual choice, I just don't see that it's ultra vires for a legislative body to rule on it.)

[ Parent | on HN ]