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Re:College-educated workers are taking over the American fac... by dang on Monday December 09, 2019 @07:44PM (#21748461)
Please don't take HN threads into religious flamewar. We don't want that here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:College-educated workers are taking over the American fac... by rayiner on Monday December 09, 2019 @04:54PM (#21747037)
Totally incorrect: https://reason.com/2019/01/22/homeschooling-produces-better-...

> "Mean ACT Composite scores for homeschooled students were consistently higher than those for public school students" from 2001 through 2014, according (PDF) to that testing organization, although private school students scored higher still.

Graduates of religious schools also outperform public school graduates on the SAT: https://www.capenet.org/pdf/Outlook399.pdf

Re:College-educated workers are taking over the American fac... by tptacek on Monday December 09, 2019 @07:34PM (#21748378)
Which is not surprising, since religious schools get to pick their students. I'm the product of 12 years of Catholic education, much of it supposedly high-quality, and expulsion and removal to the public school system was an ever-present threat. Not to mention, I'd already been implicitly selected into the school by dint of my parents being able to afford it, and opting to spend the money.
Re:College-educated workers are taking over the American fac... by bsder on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @02:35AM (#21750455)
Selection bias due to "Of homeschooled who took the ACT and/or SAT":

1) The most religious are the least likely to be college bound.

2) "Regarding ethnicity, for example, 72 percent of the homeschool students were White, 5 percent were Asian, Asian American, or Pacific Islander, and 4 percent were Black or African American, while of all college-bound seniors, the corresponding percentages were 49, 12, and 13. The average highest level of parental education was notably higher for the homeschool students than for all students."

Same study also points out that 60% of homeschooling in North Carolina is for religious reasons.

The studies without selection bias show that homeschooling is inferior in almost all cases. The big problem being that the cases of poor schools where homeschooling would be most helpful are also the same places where the parents are least likely to have the bandwidth and resources to homeschool properly.

HN has an extremely high selection bias because they are 1) the most likely to homeschool for quality-of-life reasons and 2) the most likely to be earning enough money that a parent can drop completely out of the workforce to homeschool.

Re:College-educated workers are taking over the American fac... by jtcruthers on Monday December 09, 2019 @03:40PM (#21746297)
I've never heard of that before. Many homeschooled kids I knew were very smart, but definitely lacked social skills. I've never heard of them having FAR worse educations, especially compared to bad public schools. "Really poor public schools" are an incredibly low bar.

Socialization is a hard problem to fix. I know they try with after school sports/activities/clubs, but that's not quite the same as being around peers for 8+ hours a day. In non-homeschool, the children are around other children more than adults/parents.

Re:College-educated workers are taking over the American fac... by shantly on Monday December 09, 2019 @04:05PM (#21746576)
My experience was that what passes for "socialization" in k-12 school is extremely weird compared to the same among adults. I wouldn't rule out that it is nonetheless somehow important to kids' development in a way other approaches aren't, but my gut feeling is that socialization among adults and a range of peer students of many different ages rather than mostly the same age +/- one year (how the hell, exactly, is one supposed to model the behavior of socially-successful older kids when one is rarely around them, or easily notice one's own failings when not exposed to amplified versions of the same in younger kids?) would be far better at turning out well-adjusted people.
Re:College-educated workers are taking over the American fac... by cldellow on Monday December 09, 2019 @03:49PM (#21746394)
It might vary by location. I grew up in rural British Columbia and homeschooled for a year due to a family feud with the local grade six teacher.

The other homeschooled kids I interacted with were homeschooled for religious reasons or so they could help on the farm. They were poorly socialized and poorly educated as best as my then eleven year old self could tell.

Re:College-educated workers are taking over the American fac... by livueta on Monday December 09, 2019 @05:08PM (#21747148)
Yeah, +1 anecdata.

I was homeschooled for a while and saw a lot of the other homeschooling families via the school district resource center thing, which even the real extremists interacted with at least some. From my perspective, it was broken into three major groups: religious conservatives concerned with the moral purity of their kids, upper-middle class professionals interested in accelerating their kids as much as possible, and a grab bag of students from various socioeconomic stripes who'd had trouble with the standard school system for various reasons.

I was one of the second. My mom has advanced degrees in education. My dad's an attorney. I did fine, as did basically everybody else in that cohort. Even then, the impression my friends and I had was that the religious kids spent an awful lot of time on literal bible study and weren't so hot on "actual" education. These suspicions were borne out when it was time for the state standardized tests they wanted homeschooled kids to take - every kid from the second of those cohorts (and many from the third) blasted though them, while those from the first visibly struggled. The religiously-motivated cohort also managed to out-weird a bunch of kids who spent much of their time on mid-2000s 4chan as young teens, which is actually pretty impressive.

Anyway, I agree that the reason a student is homeschooled (and by proxy the resources and pedagogical methods available to them) is a much better predictor of overall outcomes than a simple homeschooled/not binary. When there's such significant clustering in a category, trying to make judgments only utilizing knowledge/stereotypes regarding the category as a whole is a good way to be misled.

Re:College-educated workers are taking over the American fac... by duelingjello on Monday December 09, 2019 @04:00PM (#21746511)
I have a small sample size, but the two homeschool kids I met were brought up in a secular house by a Ivy League lawyer (at a nonprofit for farm workers) and a stay-at-home mom/homeschool teacher (which is two jobs). Although, the teenage girl did runway and elope with a 30-year-old for a while.

Maybe raising kids in the city makes them more streetwise, informed and cautious by sheer number of social experiences in the real world, and rural maybe more Turnip Truck? Like socialized and unsocialized pets? So goes the stereotype. Dunno.