News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Battery Pack Prices Fall As Market Ramps Up by Iv on Thursday December 05, 2019 @06:59PM (#21718023)
I wish every government that invested in renewables would invest at least as much in batteries R&D.
Re:Battery Pack Prices Fall As Market Ramps Up by hyperbovine on Thursday December 05, 2019 @08:46PM (#21718593)
I don't think government funding battery research makes as much sense now as it used to. Absolutely everything runs on batteries nowadays, to the point where they are the main source of expense and weight for a large swathe of consumer goods. The commercial incentive to build a better battery is just huge. I remember reading some years ago that the prospectus of a large oil company, ExxonMobil maybe, explicitly singled out a sudden leap in battery energy density as something that could torpedo their $250b/yr business. It's hard to see how the government finds a way to build something that the private sector can't, when there's a trillion dollars at stake.
Re:Battery Pack Prices Fall As Market Ramps Up by faustomorales on Thursday December 05, 2019 @10:44PM (#21719112)
Interesting that you mention ExxonMobil. ExxonMobil does, in fact, cite "technological advances in energy storage that make wind and solar more competitive for power generation or increased consumer demand for alternative fueled or electric vehicles" [1] as a risk factor on their annual form 10-K.

In a bit of a twist, worth noting that Exxon Research & Engineering was involved in the invention of the rechargeable lithium ion battery [2]. Quoting from [3], "Thus Stanley Whittingham invented the first rechargeable LIB, patented in 1977 and assigned to Exxon."

[1] https://ir.exxonmobil.com/static-files/37b7e1b7-620b-4248-a3...

[2] https://patents.justia.com/patent/4009052

[3] https://www.currentscience.ac.in/Volumes/117/09/1416.pdf

Disclosure: I worked for ExxonMobil from 2012-2017 but don't have any remaining ties.

Re:Battery Pack Prices Fall As Market Ramps Up by Iv on Friday December 06, 2019 @06:47AM (#21720963)
I don't know how much funding does in batteries that are designed to be stationery. I.e. where weight does not matter, where they can be bulky and potentially run hot.

There are technologies that are irrelevant for cars or phone (which I do think attract most of the battery R&D) that would be a good fit for a battery the size of a building, designed to store the electricity for a whole city during the night/low wind period.

Government can fund the private R&D easily by, for instance, mandate that renewable sources installed on the grid must provide a baseline 24/24.

But public research is nothing to sneeze at. It brought us the lithium-ion battery (Goodenough was working at the U of Texas when inventing it). Private R&D is good at incremental improvements and solving deployment problems. Public research at funding radically new tech. They work well together.

Re:Battery Pack Prices Fall As Market Ramps Up by revscat on Thursday December 05, 2019 @11:10PM (#21719205)
Economics doesn’t matter. So long as CO2 emissions continue to rise, subsidies are not only desirable they are absolutely mandatory in any rational sense of the word. The cost doesn’t matter.
Re:Battery Pack Prices Fall As Market Ramps Up by Retric on Thursday December 05, 2019 @08:37PM (#21718558)
Batteries are getting literally hundreds of millions of dollars a year in R&D investments and have been for decades. We could increase that by a few Billion per year, but it’s not obvious what would make a good investment over just buying more batteries and letting the market develop.
Re:Battery Pack Prices Fall As Market Ramps Up by Causality1 on Thursday December 05, 2019 @11:20PM (#21719240)
I would be interested in a study on how many years it takes the average "battery breakthrough" that never goes anywhere because the lab technique is completely unscalable to be revisited with more advanced technology and declared impractical a second or third time.
Re:Battery Pack Prices Fall As Market Ramps Up by dzhiurgis on Thursday December 05, 2019 @08:42PM (#21718578)
Why don't govs give tax breaks for everything that's battery related? Extraction, shipping, manufacture, sales...? I feel the price would halve instantly.
Re:Battery Pack Prices Fall As Market Ramps Up by revscat on Thursday December 05, 2019 @11:11PM (#21719210)
A carbon tax would help a great deal here as well.