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Re:Why Climate Alarmism Hurts Us All by AstralStorm on Thursday December 05, 2019 @10:35AM (#21713162)
Except renewables cannot deliver a whole network on their own ever, so there is no competition. The cost is a fake issue, because nuclear competes against coal and gas power plants and not renewables.

You need a base load capability for smoothing in an electrical grid. Most renewables are the exactly opposite. The exception is biogas or other gasification plants a these cannot handle the required load at all. Not even hydropower.

Look at what happens in Australia if you push too much solar energy (same with wind) on the network.

Re:Why Climate Alarmism Hurts Us All by bryanlarsen on Thursday December 05, 2019 @10:41AM (#21713215)
> Except renewables cannot deliver a whole network, so it does not.

Solar and wind need to be paired peaker plants. Conventional nuclear doesn't provide peaking ability.

Battery powered peakers are quite expensive, but the need for them can be reduced drastically through over-provisioning and interconnection.

Re:Why Climate Alarmism Hurts Us All by AstralStorm on Thursday December 05, 2019 @11:36AM (#21713685)
If we could overprovision solar and wind, we wouldn't have the problem now? I find that hard to believe. What happens when you need extra load at night or during a country wide lull in wind speed?

Nuclear reduces the need for peakers exactly because it can overprovision reliably.

You could also make nuclear peakers if you wanted reasonably easily too. Nuclear plants have tunable output to a point, they're just slow and hard to fully stop, so you would make a design optimized for very tunable output and high peak power. (0)

Solar and wind cannot suddenly overprovision. The sources either exist or not, you can at most ground them instead of collecting power.

0) IAEA - Non-baseload operation of nuclear power plants: https://www.iaea.org/publications/11104/non-baseload-operati...

Re:Why Climate Alarmism Hurts Us All by NeedMoreTea on Thursday December 05, 2019 @10:57AM (#21713342)
IIRC It's only 2 or 3 years ago (Not certain, but astonishingly recent) Australia was getting over 70% of power from coal, including a good proportion of lignite. Right down there with the worst, such as Poland. They've under-funded the grid for years, and belatedly rushed into solar at extreme speed.

Not surprising it brought consequences, they seem intent on approaching it really chaotically. :)

Re:Why Climate Alarmism Hurts Us All by AstralStorm on Thursday December 05, 2019 @11:38AM (#21713705)
Who is approaching it less chaotically?

Everyone is already behind the schedule with making the energy grid zero emission.

Re:Why Climate Alarmism Hurts Us All by NeedMoreTea on Thursday December 05, 2019 @12:55PM (#21714476)
UK has been quietly and steadily adding wind over a longer time, and modernising the grid without so much as a hiccough, reaching around 35% (ignoring biomass). The grid is still underfunded and lacking in some respects though. The Nordics have progressed similarly, but further, though I think Denmark had a couple of missteps. Sweden is over half renewables by now, Finland not far behind, Norway and Iceland (OK, they have their geothermal advantage) up near 70%.

All over the last 15 or 20 years.

Sure, I'd like everyone to go that fast, or faster, but trying for the speed of Australia's solar rollout seems to be asking for trouble. Don't know enough to say if there was anything unavoidable, or unique to Australia in their problems...

Re:Why Climate Alarmism Hurts Us All by t-h-e-chief on Thursday December 05, 2019 @07:23PM (#21718209)
The real issue in Australia, as I imagine it is in most countries, is the fossil fuel industries lobbying the government. Oh and because of lies and misinformation told to voters (thanks Facebook), the country voted in a creationist-level PM, who believes that if the whole world burns, it's a punishment from god.