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Re:'Shockingly High' Number of Injuries at Amazon's Staten I... by Spooky23 on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @01:01PM (#21704876)
It's amazing to think that a decade ago, Amazon was touting injury rates around 3-4 in fulfillment centers -- lower than grocery stores. Their Delaware center was recognized as one of the safest in the country by OSHA.

I worry about Amazon workers in more business friendly places. If they are doing this in a regulation heavy city/state like NY, other places must be horrific.

Re:'Shockingly High' Number of Injuries at Amazon's Staten I... by kube-system on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @01:47PM (#21705516)
Anecdotally, I know a couple of people who work at Amazon warehouses which I haven't seen mentioned in the media, and they tell me they haven't seen any of the safety issues others are reporting, and that they take safety procedures pretty seriously. I'm in a locale that is very business friendly.

Maybe this issue is specific to certain locations, markets, or segments of the logistics chain. I'd imagine that employee turnover, the products being shipped, the tasks being performed, and product volume varies significantly based on the particular location. They have a lot of facilities doing a lot of different things. The media usually mentions 'fulfillment' specifically with these articles, but that's only one part of their logistics operations.

Re:'Shockingly High' Number of Injuries at Amazon's Staten I... by megascone on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @02:18PM (#21705881)
I suspect that a large part of this is that Amazon has (according to Wikipedia) more than 300 warehouses.

If this is correct, then it would not be surprising if a few warehouses are outliers even if the overall figures are reasonable. After all, randomness (both in terms of overall luck, and the distribution of shitty managers) will end up skewing a few of the results very high or very low.

Re:'Shockingly High' Number of Injuries at Amazon's Staten I... by rtkwe on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @02:55PM (#21706235)
A couple things go into that, their NY location is probably extremely busy for Amazon due to it's proximity to NYC with it's large fairly well off population and corresponding large number of orders. That business, without increases in efforts towards safety, means more going on which means more chances for injury. As for your anecdotal info about safety with so many locations there's bound to be lots of variance in business, contractor safety, and culture around reporting.
Re:'Shockingly High' Number of Injuries at Amazon's Staten I... by irrational on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @06:10PM (#21708185)
How would that explain Troutdale, OR, which has a much higher rate than the NY location? Portland is an order of magnitude smaller than NYC. I would hope the rate of injuries would likewise be lower.
Re:'Shockingly High' Number of Injuries at Amazon's Staten I... by t-writescode on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @09:20PM (#21709397)
This one is easy.

The places with the longest living and happiest people are rural towns.

The places with the shortest living, most stressed people are also rural towns.

Small numbers breed statistical anomalies because it’s easier for 10 people in a town of 100 to happen to have bad or great lives than it is for 10000 of 100000.

Re:'Shockingly High' Number of Injuries at Amazon's Staten I... by kube-system on Thursday December 05, 2019 @01:26AM (#21710370)
They could be different facility types.

Amazon has sort centers, distribution centers, returns processing centers, robotic fulfillment centers, non-robotic fulfillment centers, and maybe other stuff I don't know about.

The people at different warehouse types are often doing different jobs.

According to a quick search, JFK8 is fulfillment center where they do pick and pack, and it's also one of the warehouses with the Kiva robots.

Couldn't find too much about PDX9.

Re:'Shockingly High' Number of Injuries at Amazon's Staten I... by rtkwe on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @06:59PM (#21708495)
It's not going to be perfect and local safety culture can turn a low volume place into a nightmare if managers don't care.

Alternatively is it still a large one? They have large hubs that serve larger areas, not everything is around to be serviced by a local hub.

Re:'Shockingly High' Number of Injuries at Amazon's Staten I... by irrational on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @07:10PM (#21708586)
I honestly don't know if it is a large one. The nearest populated areas to Portland are Seattle, 200 miles to the north; Boise, 450 miles to the east; and Sacramento, 600 miles to the south. Maybe the Portland hub is used to serve all the little town halfway between Portland and Seattle, Boise and Sacramento?
Re:'Shockingly High' Number of Injuries at Amazon's Staten I... by rtkwe on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @07:43PM (#21708842)
It looks pretty big and is next to a Fedex Ground hub. It's pretty definitely a major distribution hub for the whole area.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Amazon+Fulfillment+Center+...

Re:'Shockingly High' Number of Injuries at Amazon's Staten I... by Pfhreak on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @01:28PM (#21705264)
> Amazon was touting injury rates around 3-4 in fulfillment centers

Amazon's response sort of touches on this, saying they've pushed for recording every incident, big or small. 3-4 could be from underreporting or from better working conditions (or both).

Re:'Shockingly High' Number of Injuries at Amazon's Staten I... by arkades on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @02:04PM (#21705741)
> The figures also show a "shockingly high" number of severe injuries at JFK8, Kearl said. According to the report, workers whose injuries were logged by Amazon were each forced to miss an average of 64.04 days of employment.
Re:'Shockingly High' Number of Injuries at Amazon's Staten I... by jellicle on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @02:21PM (#21705916)
But Amazon's response is bullshit. The data is from government stats, and the reporting threshold is the same as it ever was (basically, if an employee is admitted to the hospital):

https://www.osha.gov/report.html

Amazon's PR people are pretending the high numbers are because they are reporting papercuts, but papercuts would be rejected for the government stats. This is "severe injury or death" reporting only.

"According to the report, workers whose injuries were logged by Amazon were each forced to miss an average of 64.04 days of employment."

Does that sound like papercuts? An average of three months off work, if they even return?

Re:'Shockingly High' Number of Injuries at Amazon's Staten I... by grandmczeb on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @04:11PM (#21707038)
> The data is from government stats, and the reporting threshold is the same as it ever was (basically, if an employee is admitted to the hospital)

This is wrong. It's from an analysis of Amazon's own incident logs that OSHA requires companies to keep (OSHA form 300A[1].) The government doesn't "reject" incidents from these logs. Additionally, a recordable injury is any of the following[2]

  - Any work-related fatality.
  - Any work-related injury or illness that results in loss of consciousness, days away from work, restricted work, or transfer to another job.
  - Any work-related injury or illness requiring medical treatment beyond first aid.
  - Any work-related diagnosed case of cancer, chronic irreversible diseases, fractured or cracked bones or teeth, and punctured eardrums.
  - There are also special recording criteria for work-related cases involving: needlesticks and sharps injuries; medical removal; hearing loss; and tuberculosis.
That's very different than "severe injury or death" only.

[1] https://www.osha.gov/recordkeeping/new-osha300form1-1-04-For...

[2] https://www.osha.gov/recordkeeping/

Re:'Shockingly High' Number of Injuries at Amazon's Staten I... by Pfhreak on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @03:22PM (#21706496)
Sorry, I agree with you. I think the 15 represents the truthful amount of serious injuries. I'm saying the 3-4 was likely underreported to some degree for whatever reason.
Re:'Shockingly High' Number of Injuries at Amazon's Staten I... by hurxnid on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @02:01PM (#21705701)
Companies do that to muddy the waters while also pushing policy that punishes people for reporting “real” injuries. Also these are lost time accidents. They could not have been previously hidden.
Re:'Shockingly High' Number of Injuries at Amazon's Staten I... by grandmczeb on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @03:57PM (#21706857)
Lost time or job restrictions. It could be true that Amazon is more aggressive about restricting work after an injury resulting in more reports.
Re:'Shockingly High' Number of Injuries at Amazon's Staten I... by shadowgovt on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @02:15PM (#21705852)
They could via a policy that quietly fires people who are too poor to afford a lawyer when they're injured on the job.