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Re:The Real Class War by snowwrestler on Tuesday November 26, 2019 @12:42PM (#21640595)
Have you never heard of the labor movement? The grassroots activism by working class people that forced the federal government to develop an entire arm of federal law, with its own Cabinet-level agency, to protect them from the professional managerial class?

How have you spent your career working in public policy circles and come away with so little understanding of what grassroots activism is, and the impact it has historically had?

Re:The Real Class War by macawfish on Tuesday November 26, 2019 @12:49PM (#21640678)
For the same reason that Hillary Clinton got nominated in 2016. Because too many politicians are completely out of touch with the movements, conditions and perspectives of working people.

Where I live, grassroots organizers are doing all the hard work. I'm not talking about protesters. I'm talking about people who are building and connecting organically, who are facilitating workshops and popular education sessions, who are raising awareness about what's going on in local government to enable democracy to happen. Democracy doesn't function without grassroots participation. This country would be a hell hole without the hard work of local organizers everywhere.

Re:The Real Class War by noelsusman on Tuesday November 26, 2019 @05:15PM (#21643299)
Hillary won working class voters in the 2016 primary by a comfortable margin. +28 with non-college-educated voters and +13 with voters under $50,000 in income.
Re:The Real Class War by JMTQp8lwXL on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @03:38PM (#21651857)
The primary is not reflective of the general.
Re:The Real Class War by raxxorrax on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @05:38AM (#21646797)
Against Trump, but I doubt that is a reliable metric to determine real support.
Re:The Real Class War by asdfasgasdgasdg on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @07:16AM (#21647229)
Trump was not a participant in the 2016 democratic primary, where HRC won by the indicated margins.
Re:The Real Class War by pyuser583 on Friday November 29, 2019 @01:21AM (#21662474)
Not just the politicians. I recently overheard a conversation at the startup where I work where people were talking about the benefits of unionizing I’m front the executive team.

It was clear they wouldn’t do it and talked about it like it was a joke. Something poor people do.

Part of it is that unions badly need reforming.

The other part is that nobody cares enough to reform them.

Most folks at my company don’t care because they get paid too much to care. Not a bad reason.

Once the economy goes to crap that might change.

Re:The Real Class War by marktangotango on Tuesday November 26, 2019 @05:15PM (#21643297)
> This country would be a hell hole without the hard work

This country is not a hell hole? That's a tough argument to make for a lot of people!

Re:The Real Class War by mensetmanusman on Tuesday November 26, 2019 @08:57PM (#21644651)
Volunteer in Haiti for a month.
Re:The Real Class War by AnthonyMouse on Tuesday November 26, 2019 @06:04PM (#21643650)
> Have you never heard of the labor movement? The grassroots activism by working class people that forced the federal government to develop an entire arm of federal law, with its own Cabinet-level agency, to protect them from the professional managerial class?

The irony, of course, being that government bureaucracies are inherently an instrumentality of the managerial class. It's not as if the Secretary of Labor is a line worker with no college degree.

So the agency becomes subject to regulatory capture the same as any other and private sector unions declined. Meanwhile the public sector unions remained because most government workers are themselves members of the managerial class, so the public sector unions, rather than representing line workers against a corporate bureaucracy that employs them, came to represent the bureaucracy itself against the elected representatives of the people.

Is it so surprising that it doesn't come first to mind as an instance of successful activism?

Re:The Real Class War by Bartweiss on Tuesday November 26, 2019 @03:28PM (#21642350)
I think we're reading the parent comment in very different ways. I think the key word was seen, just like the quote from the article says the managerial class is still capable of wielding power.

Basically anyone in public policy circles, even on the right, should know some labor history. But America hasn't seen a major private-sector strike victory in 20 years, and the 1997 UPS strike was a rare exception: "traditional" mass strikes haven't been a major force since the 1980s at best. It's true that pattern bargaining and labor laws have decreased the need for mass strikes since the bad old days, and people sometimes forget that OSHA and the NLRB are not a replacement for labor power but a consequence of it. But it's also true that union membership, labor bargaining power, and the union 'edge' over nonunion labor have been in decline for decades. The heyday of the UAW, the AFL-CIO, and the UFW was over by the 1980s, and even where labor has made substantial gains since they've come through courts and legislation rather than grassroots action. Even for someone who's been in public policy for 30 years, grassroots labor action has basically been a historical topic, not an active concern.

Harlan County was the cradle of the modern labor movement, but for 30 years its only political relevance has been as a symbol of the Democrats losing their labor support. I only know how things used to feel from movies and songs, not from anything that's happened in my lifetime. Maybe that'll change, the miners struck just months ago, but they haven't won yet. I've never seen grassroots labor wield power either, but that's not the same question as asking whether I know what it used to be like, or whether I want it to come back.

Re:The Real Class War by ls612 on Tuesday November 26, 2019 @07:35PM (#21644231)
Was the GM strike last month not a victory for the UAW? From what I've read they got most of what they demanded when they started out over the company's initial offer.
Re:The Real Class War by Bartweiss on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @03:03PM (#21651498)
Wow, yes it is. You're right, I just hadn't seen the final outcome of that.

It's not a knockout victory, it looks like only 57% of members ratified the new contract, but it's an impressive show of solidarity given how tiered employment has weakened unions. Salaried workers got less overtime, hourly workers got better rates, and temp workers got PTO and full-time opportunities. Plus, post-08 hires will be brought up to pre-08 wages, which has been a concern ever since the bailout.

Even if it's not an overwhelming win, that's impressive news for UAW keeping its influence across a growing range of workers statuses.

Re:The Real Class War by C1sc0cat on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @07:05AM (#21647184)
M&P are workers also and any one who works in tech is by definition are in "the professional managerial class"

I think you are confusing stunts with long term sustained lobbying.

For example I got several k people a substantial improvement to their pensions, passed a motion at a union conference got it put on bargaining agenda and successfully changed the companies mind.

Re:The Real Class War by Ericson2314 on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @11:33PM (#21654597)
Do tell us more.
Re:The Real Class War by Ericson2314 on Thursday November 28, 2019 @11:12AM (#21658313)
Not sarcasm, to be clear. I'd be very interested in this unionizing story.
Re:The Real Class War by jimbokun on Tuesday November 26, 2019 @01:18PM (#21641034)
> The grassroots activism by working class people that forced the federal government to develop an entire arm of federal law, with its own Cabinet-level agency, to protect them from the professional managerial class?

But didn't all that happen almost a century ago?

Re:The Real Class War by FussyZeus on Tuesday November 26, 2019 @05:08PM (#21643235)
The working class has been satiated since the times of such strikes and accomplishments with tax breaks, easy access to credit and a booming economic growth rate that was long-term unsustainable. Keeping in mind both parties are at fault in that trade: the politicians for being willing to ply the electorate with unsustainable economic policies to ensure votes, and the voters for being so shortsighted and naive to think infinite growth was possible. Now those chickens are coming home to roost and most of those people most responsible will probably be dead and dust before the debts are paid.

I'm not one of those people who thinks the planet is actually going to kill us off. We're a clever bunch, we'll survive. That said our world in 100 years or so will look significantly different, and I don't think in any of the ways people wanted.

Re:The Real Class War by partyboat1586 on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @03:54AM (#21646323)
Do tell, how will the world look different without infinite growth? What is your vision?
Re:The Real Class War by FussyZeus on Wednesday November 27, 2019 @10:05AM (#21648405)
Sustainable business practices. Recognition that YoY growth, every year in every business, is unreasonable. That in a world of limited resources, limited audience, limited funds and limited attention, expecting infinite growth is childishly naive.