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Re:Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web by sharpneli on Sunday November 17, 2019 @06:52AM (#21557553)
One cannot have writeable executable memory on iOS (apple can, we cannot).

Thus one cannot make a JIT compiler for js and thus pages are slow.

Game engines such as Unity use il2cpp to go from the C# stuff into C++ that can be statically compiled as running the C# as bytecode would be too slow without a jitter.

Re:Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web by radarsat1 on Sunday November 17, 2019 @06:56AM (#21557560)
Ah, so it is all about the javascript engine? Ok I can see how that might put up some major technical barriers, but still it should be technically feasible to have the firefox rendering engine make use of the iOS javascript engine, no? Maybe it's not worth the effort of course. I am just trying to get a feel for what the barriers are.
Re:Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web by sharpneli on Sunday November 17, 2019 @07:20AM (#21557622)
Not via public apis. So cannot be placed into app store.
Re:Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web by KonkeyDong69 on Sunday November 17, 2019 @07:34AM (#21557668)
In addition to what the other replies said, feel free to eyeball the code required to embed SpiderMonkey in Firefox at https://github.com/mozilla/gecko-dev/tree/master/dom/binding.... It's rather large and complex.
Re:Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web by padenot on Sunday November 17, 2019 @09:48AM (#21558090)
This is not at all the code to embed SpiderMonkey in Firefox, those are the bindings from DOM APIs to the implementation of those APIs in Firefox. Above that, calling into this layer, is another layer that transforms JS calls into C++ calls (roughly).

The interface between SpiderMonkey and the rest of Firefox is here: https://searchfox.org/mozilla-central/source/js/src/jsapi.h.

Re:Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web by vbezhenar on Sunday November 17, 2019 @07:22AM (#21557626)
I think that iOS JS engine is tied to WebView and it would be hard to re-use it with other rendering engine.
Re:Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web by saagarjha on Sunday November 17, 2019 @08:18AM (#21557802)
JavaScriptCore can be used can be used independently from the rest of WebKit, but I’d expect it to be slow.
Re:Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web by saagarjha on Sunday November 17, 2019 @08:17AM (#21557798)
> One cannot have writeable executable memory on iOS (apple can, we cannot).

Nitpick: you can but you cannot ship it via the App Store.

Re:Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web by shkkmo on Sunday November 17, 2019 @09:38AM (#21558046)
Apple as does not allow side-loading, so wouldn't a jailbreak be required?
Re:Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web by least on Sunday November 17, 2019 @10:45AM (#21558392)
Jailbreak, enterprise certificate, testflight, or a developer account would be required to sideload an app. You can technically sideload an app without a paid developer account, but the certificate only lasts seven days, at which point you'd have to reload the application.
Re:Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web by zzzcpan on Sunday November 17, 2019 @07:41AM (#21557684)
> One cannot have writeable executable memory on iOS (apple can, we cannot).

> Thus one cannot make a JIT compiler for js and thus pages are slow.

Lack of JIT doesn't slow down pages much. I believe the difference is so small that it might even be possible to be faster without JIT for most pages, especially on low power devices, it's only computation heavy pages that are going to suffer and even then it's not like you can't optimize common patterns statically ahead of time.

It doesn't mean that it's a good idea to invest into it, you are still under Apple's mercy and they clearly don't want competing browser engines.

Re:Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web by sharpneli on Sunday November 17, 2019 @08:17AM (#21557799)
If I have understood correctly (I’m a C++ graphics programmer. So don’t know too much about what’s flashy in the web world) V8 only jits. As in it can only produce machine code and there is not even an option to run it as an interpreter.
Re:Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web by saagarjha on Sunday November 17, 2019 @08:20AM (#21557806)
V8 has a high performance, JIT-less interpreter that disables TurboFan and relies exclusively on Ignition: https://v8.dev/blog/jitless
Re:Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web by chrisseaton on Sunday November 17, 2019 @09:15AM (#21557971)
> Lack of JIT doesn't slow down pages much.

So why do you think so many major companies invest such a huge amount of money in JS JITs? Google, Apple, Microsoft, Oracle, Mozilla all maintain JS JITs and spend what I guess is hundreds of millions of dollars a year on it.

Re:Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web by notacoward on Monday November 18, 2019 @08:31AM (#21564121)
A budget of $100M, with 50% devoted to salary and a median salary of $250K, would be 200 developers. I seriously doubt any of the companies you name are devoting even a quarter of that to JS JIT development. Yes, they each make significant investments, but let's not weaken the argument by indulging a penchant for hyperbole.
Re:Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web by chrisseaton on Monday November 18, 2019 @12:40PM (#21566289)
About 200 seems about right to me across all these companies. Have you worked on one of these teams?

> let's not weaken the argument by indulging a penchant for hyperbole

Please don’t be so dismissive and snide - there’s no need for that.

Re:Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web by notacoward on Monday November 18, 2019 @04:38PM (#21568384)
> About 200 seems about right to me across all these companies.

Then your initial estimate was way off, because you were suggesting multiple hundreds of millions and the average salary probably isn't that high.

> there’s no need for that

Honest argument wouldn't require such forceful correction.

Re:Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web by chrisseaton on Monday November 18, 2019 @05:41PM (#21568925)
I didn't say a hundred million per company.

> Honest argument wouldn't require such forceful correction.

Please try to tone it down.