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Re:PG&E turning off power to protect against fire has create... by SllX on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @09:51AM (#21397700)
Ah, nothing in my comment was intended to imply that solar was a silver bullet, but the way I phrased it was off the cuff because I didn’t want to go into the myriad of ways and emerging technologies that will allow people and businesses to take themselves off the grid at least temporarily. That’s the key, temporarily.

You’re probably giving up AC, you’re probably going to want something like Tesla’s Powerwall. You’re probably not going to be running your washer and dryer during that time. You probably want any desktop computers you have on UPS. You probably want your appliances using as little electricity as possible even during normal operation. You probably don’t want to leave all the lights on.

And I forget the name of this one, but you will need an extra piece of equipment beyond the panels and batteries to actually take your house off the grid. Personally I’m also excited for the possibility of miniature hydrogen generators as a store of power.

> From what I’ve read here on HN, a self-sufficient solar setup is expensive enough that it will cost more than being on the grid, even when amortized over the lifespan of the setup.

That’s true today and I will not dispute it, but expect prices to come down , and with PG&E’s capriciousness, the cost of doing nothing to rise, and installation opportunities to increase. If the utility is going to behave in a capricious manner, then people will respond over time. This can be on a personal level by trying to insulate their own homes from power failures as much as possible, or even at the municipal level where cities allow new utilities to come in and replace or compete with PG&E.

We don’t need PG&E, we just need electricity. People are creative, we’ll find ways to make that happen, even with PG&E fighting tooth and nail against their own marginalization.

Re:PG&E turning off power to protect against fire has create... by ccffpphh on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @04:16PM (#21402082)
What about the externalities of harvesting battery components? And battery replacements? The externalities of manufacturing panels?

Wouldn't it be easier to build several large scale nuclear plants and offset it with a small amount of renewables than try to make all of our power run off of rechargeable batteries?

Re:PG&E turning off power to protect against fire has create... by bhhaskin on Thursday October 31, 2019 @09:31AM (#21408490)
Yes. The ugly truth is rechargable batteries are very hardcore, and have to be replaced every few years. The amount of very hazardous waste generated if every house was fitted with a battery system would be astronomical. Sure nuclear power produces a fair bit of radioactive waste, but it can be managed and controlled. And that is with current technology. Just imagine the advancements that could be made on future generations of nuclear technology.
Re:PG&E turning off power to protect against fire has create... by falcolas on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @11:22AM (#21398702)
A Tesla Powerwall 2 can hold 13.5 kWh of energy.

In the US, the lowest average home consumes around 17 kWh of electricity a day; the highest uses 42. This usage does not correlate with the hose usage, meaning that most of the power is consumed when the sun is low in the sky or during the night - putting the majority of the load on the Tesla Powerwall.

You'd need at least two Powerwalls to avoid a significant change in lifestyle, plus ~5kW of solar cells to fill those batteries every day (not accounting for cloudy days).

And a change in lifestyle may not even be practical, since most housing constructed in the last few decades was built with the assumption that AC and electric heating are available.

https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/how-many-solar-panels-do-i...

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=97&t=3

Re:PG&E turning off power to protect against fire has create... by SllX on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @11:31AM (#21398823)
My friend, my comrade in arms, please note what my entire post said.

I repeatedly emphasized that there wouldn’t be no change in lifestyle or quality of life for the duration of an outage, but it would be doable and will likely become less burdensome in the long term.

Allow me to re-emphasize: people are creative and adaptable. Given the necessity to adapt, people will find ways. People are or have been without power for a couple of days now, they’re angry about it. Very angry, and justifiably so, and I feel confident in saying that the market response to this state of affairs will not be zero.

Re:PG&E turning off power to protect against fire has create... by falcolas on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @12:24PM (#21399432)
I did. And as I noted - changing lifestyle to support a niche case to not include AC (so you can use solar off the grid) is not always possible, let alone reasonable to ask.

Ask yourself, which is more reasonable - a couple thousand dollars (or tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars) for an off-grid capable solar setup or a gas generator to account for the dozen or so days of inconvenience? Several cities in the north east suffered almost a month without power (in a much harsher season), and most of their solutions involved purchasing a small gas generator and moving on with their lives.

It's much more likely that the response will be political. PG&E out and install a better caretaker.

Re:PG&E turning off power to protect against fire has create... by rpedela on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @03:59PM (#21401870)
Personally, I think some rich people will likely go the solar+batteries route just because it requires less work overall after it is installed or provides peace of mind. Maintaining and refueling a generator isn't hard, but it is still one more thing to worry about. If the outages go on long enough, I predict the cost of solar+batteries will come down because enough rich people buy them and more and more people will be able to afford them.
Re:PG&E turning off power to protect against fire has create... by ghaff on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @11:47AM (#21398999)
>most housing constructed in the last few decades was built with the assumption that AC and electric heating are available.

Depends where you live. In the northern US, you're absolutely dependent on heat requiring electricity for a number of months during the year. In the south, things get pretty bad, even life threatening, without AC during a number a year. I'll go out on a limb though and say that Northern California (except at higher elevations) does not fall into either of those categories.

Added: I do agree that many newer houses don't optimize well for making effective use of natural light, airflow, etc.