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Re:1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets by carrozo on Sunday October 27, 2019 @09:17AM (#21369507)
In Paris, freight trucks enter the city at night and deliver packages to smaller warehouses near homes. In the morning, bikes and electric vans haul them to people’s doorsteps. Some neighborhood convenience stores and flower shops double as pickup spots for packages.

European model seems like a good one to copy here.

Re:1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets by kweks on Sunday October 27, 2019 @09:33AM (#21369573)
On paper, it's a perfect system. In reality, failing businesses who want the extra income sign up to be package pickup spots, and then provide deplorable service.

Some don't respect the opening hours that were published. Some literally climb over mountains of packages. Some have no organisation. Delivery companies realised that they no longer have to attempt deliveries so automatically dump their packages in the pickup points. Most pickup points end up loathing people who comes to pick up packages: the customer hates the lack of service and resent that their package wasn't delivered, the shop resents that they have even less time for their failing business, and take this out on the package customers.

The worst part is, 90% of the time you can't control if a package goes there.

Re:1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets by frereubu on Sunday October 27, 2019 @10:06AM (#21369752)
Anecdatum - a local failing newsagent (UK) is the UPS pickup point and I've not had a single problem with them. In fact I prefer picking up from them because UPS delivery times are verging on fictitious. I think it may keep the newsagent afloat and that's absolutely fine by me if I can pickup my packages from them, because they're not going to exist for much longer just selling the curious mixture of indigestion tablets, cat fancier magazines and third-rate chocolate biscuits that they do currently in their windowless hovel.
Re:1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets by jdietrich on Sunday October 27, 2019 @10:56AM (#21370096)
>I've not had a single problem with them

Seconded. I get a lot of packages delivered to my local convenience store, even if I'm expecting to be in on the delivery day. I find it vastly preferable to collect the parcel at my own convenience rather than wait for the knock-and-run from an impatient delivery driver.

Re:1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets by CydeWeys on Sunday October 27, 2019 @11:51AM (#21370481)
I get a lot of smaller packages delivered to work for a similar reason. I'd rather get a notification and go pick it up than have it randomly dropped either in front of my door or in the apartment's common lobby, and wonder if it's going to grow feet and walk off before I get home.
Re:1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets by kweks on Sunday October 27, 2019 @11:59AM (#21370537)
It may be a cultural difference. Over the years, I'd had parcels delivered to about 10 different depots, and the experience was always the same.

The google reviews for the places are all the same: 1 star, never open / packages stolen / packages broken.

It's great to hear it works better in some places; on paper it's a great solution.

Re:1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets by apostacy on Sunday October 27, 2019 @10:36AM (#21369938)
UPS already tried doing this a few years ago in Brooklyn,[1] but not Manhattan apparently.

I was subjected to this a few years ago.

Instead of being greeted at the end of the day with my shiny new $300 phone, they left it in a pile on the filthy floor of a local bodega three blocks away. Then, after finding it, I have to wait in line and have my ID scanned and sign for it. And I paid for overnight shipping but if I don't rush home, I have to wait until the next day.

My neighbor hated it more than I did. So, she started "stealing" her packages from the bodega. It turns out that if you don't sign for the package, they return it to the sender after a week and you get a full refund. So you can easily double dip by not signing for it and also getting a refund. And the local business is responsible for package being lost.

After two months, the local bodega stopped hosting packages, presumably because they were having to eat the cost of losing packages. Since there were no other businesses nearby willing to do this, UPS was forced to resume delivering to our building.

While this is an effective way for people to shut this kind of thing down, I'm sure it must be illegal. At least if you get caught, it is fairly deniable, since the package has your name on it. But it is probably illegal to interfere with a package being delivered.

Please do not do this. You are stealing from the merchant.

[1]: https://www.ups.com/us/en/services/e-commerce/b2c-delivery-s...

Re:1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets by smelendez on Sunday October 27, 2019 @01:50PM (#21371248)
Taking the package and claiming a refund is obviously fraud but it sounds like the business was also not properly safeguarding the packages.

Why not keep them under the counter?

Re:1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets by apostacy on Sunday October 27, 2019 @03:50PM (#21371954)
No, you don't claim a refund. She showed me that her Amazon tracking number showed that the package she didn't sign for was listed as returned with no signature, and she was given a refund.

It seems like something that can easily happen by accident. I can understand why she was frustrated. After being on a crowded subway, I hated having to go into a crowded store and wait on line to get my package. But I did not agree with her knowingly exploiting this to get free stuff. I know that she told other people in our building how to do this. I don't know if this led directly to the bodega not receiving packages anymore, but I'm sure that someone had to pay for it.

I would not be surprised if these access points were a major vector for mail fraud. At this particular bodega, not just did we have to wait on line, but sometimes we'd have to wait for the clerk to deal with other customers on a different line. So I can easily see how she would have made off without signing.

I never had a choice in the matter. I think it was theoretically possible to opt out, but I would have had to make a UPS account, and even then it was not a guarantee. I personally really resented how the shipping status would be changed to something like "For your convenience, we will be delivering to an access point instead". Even on Saturdays when I was home and able to receive, they didn't even bother sometimes and would just drop it off at 7PM at the bodega. Not convenient.

Re:1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets by oogali on Sunday October 27, 2019 @01:16PM (#21370998)
Are you talking about UPS Access Points?

If so, that is definitely available in Manhattan as I’ve had packages routed to them willingly (I requested it) and unwillingly (driver was too busy to complete deliveries that day).

It started out with the access points being fairly ubiquitous and available at local bakeries, coffee shops, etc. But in recent years, it’s been scaled back to the local UPS Store locations.

But it’s definitely still a thing available in Manhattan, and I’d wager all the boroughs.

Re:1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets by delfinom on Monday October 28, 2019 @09:19AM (#21376665)
>But in recent years, it’s been scaled back to the local UPS Store locations.

Alot of it is due to UPS Stores. They are franchised. Many owners got extremely upset, betrayed and were threatening to quit because UPS was making them pay all the fees for franchising and proceed to start screwing them over by involving others for basically free.

Re:1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets by coliveira on Sunday October 27, 2019 @11:05AM (#21370158)
This only shows the lack of character of some New Yorkers compared to people from Paris. They resort to stealing to get what they want. It is a shame, and very difficult to create a civilized world in this situation.
Re:1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets by teglsbo on Sunday October 27, 2019 @10:53AM (#21370075)
Let the receiver choose the pickup point. In Denmark it's usually possible to choose the pickup point in the checkout flow when ordering. In that way I can take my business elsewhere, if I don't like service.
Re:1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets by MrBuddyCasino on Sunday October 27, 2019 @11:25AM (#21370276)
Same in Germany. There is usually no problem at all with picking up parcels.
Re:1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets by majewsky on Sunday October 27, 2019 @02:50PM (#21371650)
At least not on the level of "package is badly damaged" or "package gets lost/stolen". There's still the issue of limited opening hours which is a hard issue for people who are working themselves during business hours.

Also, the delivery companies that are not DHL have quite sparse pickup locations, which means more time lost on commuting.

Re:1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets by Symbiote on Sunday October 27, 2019 @03:29PM (#21371838)
I think most kiosks and other locations that serve as pickup/drop-off spots have better hours than the delivery driver.

They tend to open at around 7:00, and close at 18:00 or 19:00, which is much easier to schedule around than a driver who might deliver between, say, 7-17.

Re:1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets by pengstrom on Sunday October 27, 2019 @02:38PM (#21371580)
We have the same system in Sweden and it works very well.
Re:1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets by cperciva on Sunday October 27, 2019 @01:25PM (#21371075)
Delivery companies realised that they no longer have to attempt deliveries so automatically dump their packages in the pickup points.

Indeed. There's a UPS pickup point a block away from me, and when Amazon decides to deliver packages via UPS, the driver 100% consistently leaves a "missed delivery" notice without even trying to deliver the package.

When I complain, UPS is always apologetic, but nothing ever changes...

Re:1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets by lifeformed on Sunday October 27, 2019 @09:50AM (#21369664)
Perhaps, but that sound like a much more manageable problem to solve than what the article describes happening in NYC.
Re:1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets by majewsky on Sunday October 27, 2019 @02:46PM (#21371625)
The better system is what DHL is doing with their Packstationen in Germany: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packstation

Basically it's like a vending machine for packages. You address your parcel to one of these and the package deliverer will deposit them into a locker there. I then get a code by e-mail which I can use to open the locker whenever I get around to the Packstation. It's really nice for people who work during the day and thus have a hard time getting to the pickup shops during business hours. The only downside is that it only works for small to medium-sized packages, but those are the bulk anyway.

Re:1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets by barsonme on Monday October 28, 2019 @12:55AM (#21374386)
Those are all over the US, too. My apartment has Parcel Pending that couriers can put packages in.

Amazon has lockers, too.

Re:1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets by CydeWeys on Sunday October 27, 2019 @03:54PM (#21371978)
I've seen those in various places in the US too.
Re:1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets by Bootvis on Sunday October 27, 2019 @09:26AM (#21369540)
It will be the e d of same day delivery and that’s just fine with me.