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Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by Pigo on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @09:12AM (#21334249)
The intelligence agencies have proven to be vindictive, and also a back-channel arm for straight up partisan politics. It seems like it goes unnoticed when the outcome is something that aligns with a party's goals. I just can't tell if it's fallible people in positions of power, or a real concerted effort.

I think a lot of our problems stem from the undermining of our system of checks and balances, and whatever is up with the fourth estate. I'm digressing, but I recall a time when journalists would be roasting public officials over these issues.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by asveikau on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @10:32AM (#21334992)
If it were partisan politics I don't think we would see the continuity that we did between Bush and Obama.

I think it was clear and overt during the Bush era that there were some dubious claims thrown around about "we need this to prevent another 9/11", with "this" being vague, broad, varying with the particular speaker. It was disappointing to many when Obama embraced some of these conclusions.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by larrywright on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @03:50PM (#21338189)
Obama presented himself as the anti-Bush when it came to a lot of things to do with the military and intelligence operations. I suspected that once he took office his stance on some of these things would shift closer to Bush’s, and I was right.

I based this on my theory that there are things that the general public does not know, and will never know, that influence the decisions POTUS makes. Until you are privy to that information, it’s easy to take a contrarian viewpoint. Once you have the information, and the responsibility for making decisions that might save American lives, it’s a lot harder.

I’m not saying that any of these policies are right or wrong, or that the general public should be kept in the dark about whatever it is we’re being kept in the dark about. It’s just a theory I have about how the world works. I have no way of proving or disproving it, but I think the evidence supports it.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by busterarm on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @11:05AM (#21335347)
> If it were partisan politics I don't think we would see the continuity that we did between Bush and Obama.

If it weren't partisan politics, you wouldn't be seeing roughly 15 senior officials from the NSA/CIA/FBI leaving the public sector to take jobs at CNN & MSNBC.

I'm curious why most people don't find this to be deeply disturbing.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by boomboomsubban on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @11:52AM (#21335868)
I don't find it disturbing as Fox News and the other "conservative" media outlets were already full of ex-Bush era public sector employees. Both sides have an aggressively pro-intelligence agency bend, even if there are partisan differences.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by busterarm on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @12:03PM (#21335970)
There's a sizeable difference between judges and cabinet officials who have long been media pundits (though I do mostly agree that it's disturbing) and folks whose primary experience is in intelligence and counter-intelligence.

The era of rampant, selective intelligence leaks to the media started when these very same people were in administration.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by wahern on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @01:29PM (#21336834)
Intelligence was always this leaky, there just wasn't social media and modern-day yellow journalism to twist it and spread it around. And we didn't have outrage culture, which provides a very blunt and dangerous mechanism for leakers to leverage.

The only real secret intelligence is tactical (military or otherwise), because we aren't quite that craven, exceptions notwithstanding. Everything else is intrinsically political and has a very short half-life as a secret. Work for a few years inside the Beltway, especially with or near people who are connected (e.g. lobbyists, think tank scholars, appointees, Pentagon staffers, international orgs, etc), and this becomes obvious immediately. Secrets are social currency more important than money and maybe even title. Everybody shares secrets, albeit usually in an obnoxious, obfuscated, pretentious way; even the interns.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by boomboomsubban on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @02:47PM (#21337586)
As the other poster notes, selective intelligence leaking has been going on forever. And if there is a lack of Ex-Bush intelligence community members in the press, it is because the whole torture thing made then step away from the public eye.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by asveikau on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @12:58PM (#21336548)
I find I want to reply, but I don't know how to do that without getting wrapped up in a discussion that's too easy to be misinterpreted or dismissed here as political.

I think you are conflating a few issues.

On the one hand there is the bipartisan surveillance issue that Snowden shined a light on.

More recently we have a bunch of Trump and anti-Trump narratives and sometimes conspiracy theories.

I suspect some people on the thread have squished those into one. But the intelligence community is likely complicated, motivations multi-faceted, people holding diverse opinions. I don't think these things are the same, or you can dismiss or endorse one cause for the other.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by hannasanarion on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @11:36AM (#21335705)
CNN and NBC are not partisan entities, contrary to Republican smears. If they have any faults, it is in how desperately they bend over backwards to maintain the appearance of nonpartisanship amidst bad-faith attacks from the right, to the point that CNN just this week hired an alt-right conspiracy theorist as a full time contributor.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by busterarm on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @11:53AM (#21335891)
1) I'm a progressive and I'm saying this.

2) CNN and MSNBC absolutely are partisan entities, though CNN does try hard to appear less so. As long as MSNBC keeps employing Maddow and she keeps pushing debunked conspiracy theories, they will absolutely be seen as partisan. Her coverage as of late has been absolutely disgraceful and a huge stain on that network, IMO.

3) None of what you said addresses the very alarming fact that the heads of our intelligence agencies are taking senior posts in these media organizations.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by StanislavPetrov on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @02:12PM (#21337246)
The partisans aren't, "Democrats" and "Republicans" when it comes to intelligence agencies. The partisans are those who support global US hegemony and those who don't. The intelligence agencies do, and they have an "ends justifies the means" mentality. They don't see transgressions against civil liberties or Constitutional violations as troubling or an impediment as long as they perceive themselves as working towards a "greater good". This is not how a lawful, Constitutional society is supposed to (or can) work. Democracy dies behind closed doors and every day more and more doors are being slammed shut in our face by unaccountable government agents who are increasingly seizing the levers of power in government, media, business and every other facet of our lives.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by duxup on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @10:41AM (#21335080)
Yeah the idea that the intelligence community pushed these stories doesn't hold up.

If you look into the folks who were in the spotlight pushing "we need this to prevent another 9/11" they were mostly former military and some with intelligence connections... but the real connection was their political connections.

Many outright stated the information they were provided to go on TV with came from politically associated groups not some secretive internal policy. In fact intelligence groups internally pushed back on some of the claims and political appointees ignored them.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jakeogh on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @03:18PM (#21337874)
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by davidwitt415 on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @12:15PM (#21336087)
The continuity was in foreign policy. Obama, like GW Bush and Clinton, deferred to the 'Deep State' on foreign policy, military and security matters. He started out idealistic, but was quickly subsumed. Trump has bucked the System, and that is why the bipartisan knives are out for him.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by noelsusman on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @12:38PM (#21336343)
You should probably tell the blob that because to this day they have nothing but complaints about Obama's foreign policy.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by AndrewBissell on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @01:18PM (#21336735)
The blob will always be dissatisfied because there is always one more country to invade and one more way to escalate a conflict, and eventually any U.S. politician has to stop giving the blob what it desires if they want to get reelected.

Relative to what Hillary Clinton's or Marco Rubio's foreign policy would have been, sure, Obama was a model of probity, but this is damning with faint praise.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by dd36 on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @10:24AM (#21334916)
Examples of partisan politics by IC?
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by DiogenesKynikos on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @02:00PM (#21337127)
I guess this isn't strictly "partisan," but it is highly political: the FBI tried to destroy Martin Luther King Jr., and even attempted to blackmail him with recordings they had taken.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by blotter_paper on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @03:42PM (#21338121)
Seriously, I'm amazed how many people are ignorant of this fact. They didn't just blackmail him, they clearly implied that he should commit suicide before recieving the Nobel if he didn't want the tapes released. ("There is only one thing left for you to do. You know what it is.") They never released the tapes, of course, but he did die. Everyone also seems unaware that the King family was awarded $1 in damages from the federal government for the wrongful death of MLK; they contend that the US government assassinated him and used James Earl Ray as a patsy, and while they never got Ray's conviction overturned (despite trying) they did get a separate US court to agree that the government should pay them symbolic damages based on this interpretation of events.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by dd36 on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @05:23PM (#21339144)
Uh... examples from 50 years ago is not what I was picturing.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by blotter_paper on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @09:54PM (#21340953)
Really, "that time the FBI tried to blackmail Martin Luther King into committing suicide" is too far back to count as an example of TLA overreach? We only know about that whole escapade because radicals physically broke into an FBI office and stole evidence of it, this isn't the kind of thing the government willingly admits to us. The CIA destroyed most of the MK-ULTRA documents when they realised Congress was getting ready to ask for them, but we still know that they were drugging unconsenting US citizens with LSD and secretly recording them having sex with hookers (they called it "Operation Midnight Climax") just to see what would happen, but I guess that's old news, too, or maybe it just isn't politcial enough to care about. We probably won't know that they killed Michael Hastings for another couple decades, and then that will be old news, too, so who cares?
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by Pigo on Monday October 28, 2019 @09:01AM (#21376496)
Peter Strzok, Lisa Page?