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Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by kiba on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @09:11AM (#21334245)
Interesting. I would argue that government officials can be reliable, efficient, conscientious, when they are properly incentivized. Instead, there are various pathologies that infect various organs or agencies at various time, often at time seemly mutually exclusive but they coexist nonetheless.

The government isn't given the trust needed to regulate or otherwise do its job efficiently. See various civil engineering projects, explosive cost growth whenever contractors compete for bids. People justify that as evidence that governments as inherently inefficient.

Government is abusing civil liberties through spying on everyday Americans. Relatively nobody cares.

The government is being corrupt, privileging senators' pet projects or program over the good of the nation. See the Senate Launch System. Nobody cares except space nerds. At the same time, NASA also supported the various effort to commercialize space, which is a major win.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by dnautics on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @10:32AM (#21334991)
> I would argue that government officials can be reliable, efficient, conscientious, when they are properly incentivized.

What do you propose as the magical "proper" incentivisation?

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by kiba on Thursday October 24, 2019 @12:54AM (#21341737)
Why do you think I presume to know a 'magical' one-size fit all solutions?
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by lern_too_spel on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @09:33AM (#21334426)
> Relatively nobody cares.

If nobody cared, the only illegal domestic data collection program in the Snowden docs wouldn't have been shut down. It has been.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsas-...

If nobody cared, Google wouldn't have encrypted its cross-datacenter traffic. It has.

https://gmail.googleblog.com/2014/03/staying-at-forefront-of...

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by resters on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @10:02AM (#21334699)
How do you know?
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by lern_too_spel on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @10:13AM (#21334812)
I posted links. If you don't think Google has encrypted its cross-datacenter traffic, you can try to access it yourself. If you don't think the NSA has stopped collecting all phone metadata, why would there be records of the NSA collecting a subset of metadata afterward?
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jessaustin on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @03:33PM (#21338020)
Every corrupt organization keeps two sets of books.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by lern_too_spel on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @05:56PM (#21339468)
There remains no evidence that the NSA is deliberately flouting the law. If there were, Snowden would have leaked that instead of lists of hacked Chinese computer systems.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jessaustin on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @07:24PM (#21340122)
I don't understand the timeline you're implying. Snowden did blow the whistle on this program, in 2013. Your link was from 2015, and now it's 2019, if I'm not mistaken. Snowden has lost the access he had before his whistleblowing. It will take another whistleblower to reveal the scale of current unsupervised malfeasance.
Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by lern_too_spel on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @10:19PM (#21341091)
You're not following the point. The point was that people did care about the leaks and took appropriate action.

Secondarily, you're not understanding the leaked documents. The leaked documents showed that the NSA believed that the phone metadata program was legal. Once there is a court ruling that it is illegal, its lawyers cannot justify the program.

Thirdly, your phrase "another whistleblower" shows that you do not know what a whistleblower is. Leaking thousands of programs where just one of them happens to be illegal but not obviously so (to the point where Snowden was far more interested in PRISM, an obviously legal program) is not whistleblowing.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by jessaustin on Thursday October 24, 2019 @10:15AM (#21344870)
As discussed in the podcast, not even a few of the people at NSA believed anything of the sort. WaPo hasn't taken down this gem yet:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/06/27/lawye...

As detailed there, it took 18 months of lobbying and browbeating the secret court (in which DoJ faces no opposing counsel) in order to jury-rig a fig leaf for the ongoing destruction of personal liberties. I'm made my peace with the fact that the authoritarians to whose whims we are subject will occasionally overstep their bounds in public. When they do so, the public may protest and eventually conditions might improve somewhat. When the unsupervised services harm us, their putative employers, we have no recourse.

Also I have to say I'm just loving the concerted effort ITT to redefine the term "whistleblower". You guys make a great team!

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by lern_too_spel on Thursday October 24, 2019 @01:18PM (#21346808)
> As discussed in the podcast, not even a few of the people at NSA believed anything of the sort.

Snowden's documents themselves showed the legal justification for the phone metadata program. It nakes sense that Snowden would claim otherwise in the podcast because he is barely literate and hasn't actually read most of the documents he leaked.

> As detailed there, it took 18 months of lobbying and browbeating the secret court

You don't "lobby" a court. You have lawyers justify a position.

> Also I have to say I'm just loving the concerted effort ITT to redefine the term "whistleblower".

You're the one making a bizarre definition of "whistleblower." Is it whistleblowing to leak all of your company's documents if you don't know they are doing anything illegal so long as somebody can later find one thing that is illegal? Obviously not.

Re:Edward Snowden on The Joe Rogan Experience [video] by resters on Friday October 25, 2019 @01:25PM (#21357190)
> Snowden was far more interested in PRISM, an obviously legal program) is not whistleblowing

The public outrage was due to various top officials denying that anything like PRISM was going on, when in fact it was.

So either the program was illegal, the false statements made by officials about them, or the classification of the process that prevented democratic oversight. One of the three had to be illegal, it's not really relevant to split hairs over which was one actually was.