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Re:Ask HN: What's a promising area to work on? by awinder on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @01:24PM (#21326272)
I'm gonna go in a different direction: broadly, solutions that deal with the problems of an aging population:

1. Technology that helps doctors/practices service more elderly patients

2. Wellbeing technology for seniors (Headspace/Calm should totally push towards this area)

3. Personnel management for homecare nursing

List could go on and on. None of this is especially "trendy" but there's clear demographic reasons to build startups in this area and there's going to be a natural onramp of capital & solutions for how to care for a radically older population are going be sorely needed.

Re:Ask HN: What's a promising area to work on? by SkyPuncher on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @02:15PM (#21326905)
I worked in these spaces for the past few years.

Money is the biggest challenge. Elderly who can afford to pay for their care have plenty of options available for all of this. Many elderly (on Medicare or fixed income) simply don't have any money.

> 1. Technology that helps doctors/practices service more elderly patients

Telemedicine and home care services, like Honor, are addressing this. Telemedicine will improve as more technically adept people age.

> 2. Wellbeing technology for seniors (Headspace/Calm should totally push towards this area)

This is purely a monetary issue. The moment Medicare covers these services, they will be used extensively.

> 3. Personnel management for homecare nursing

This one is part money and part skill. There simply isn't enough money to pay people with homecare skills. The price most people are willing to pay typically falls in the range of a Home Health Aid. There are some great ones, but there are also tons that lack skills, ethics, and compassion for the role.

I don't blame them either. Why would you do home health when you can get similar pay working at a factory, warehouse, or, even, fast food.

Re:Ask HN: What's a promising area to work on? by el_dev_hell on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @06:33PM (#21329135)
> I don't blame them either. Why would you do home health when you can get similar pay working at a factory, warehouse, or, even, fast food.

My mother was a nurse for years in the aged care sector. The pay for a qualified nurse is actually pretty good (I would still argue it should be higher for the work, but it was well above average).

Homecare aids (or AIN/care assistants as they were called here) are paid horribly and treated as expendable (even when the roles are difficult to fill since no one wants to wipe asses and give 89 year old dementia patients bed baths for $18.6 AUD per hour).

Most of the care assistants I met were checked out and only there because they had no other option. The combination of minimum wage and high turnover also means you end up with some really horrible people in these roles. I remember hearing multiple stories about care assistants stealing from homes and mistreating patients. If you paid a little better and treated the staff with respect, you wouldn't need to hire the dregs of society to look after the most vulnerable in society.

Re:Ask HN: What's a promising area to work on? by Thorentis on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @07:36PM (#21329593)
We are at a turning point in society right now because of all the things you address. In the last few decades have seen a rapid shift in the willingness of family members to look after their elderly.

There's a few reasons for this, the biggest I think is the ageing population. When your parents need care at 85 years old, and you are 60 looking at retiring soon (or perhaps can't retire and need to work for another 7 years), most people decide they'd rather enjoy the last few years of their "active" life before perhaps even needing care themselves, rather than be "burdened" with caring for parents, relatives, etc. And so it falls either on the state, or on the generational wealth of the elderly to foot the bill and pay for care. Relatives often shoot themselves in the foot though. Their inheritance is being spent on paying somebody to wipe their mum's backside, because they didn't want to look after them themselves. (Unless their parents are on medicare or whatever, in which case there's even less reason for them to care).

The only part is just societies disdain and repulsion of sickness, bodily fluids, etc. Centuries ago, if you could live comfortably (not amazingly, but not be in the street), just by showering a few old people and cleaning up poo, you'd have people lining up round the block to do it. Now, the willingness to work (and therefore the salary curve) has inverted, and you need to pay people increasing amounts of money to do what was once considered menial or easy work.

Re:Ask HN: What's a promising area to work on? by frobozz on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @07:09AM (#21333347)
> Relatives often shoot themselves in the foot though ... because they didn't want to look after them themselves.

Or because it is too difficult to do so. People are having children later in life and moving to different cities. Housing affordability in many places makes it difficult to provide for a family on one income. If your parents need care as young as 80 and you are 50 with young teenaged children, your capacity to also provide daily living assistance to up to four people who live 100 miles away in opposite directions is rather limited.

> Centuries ago, if you could live comfortably ... you need to pay people increasing amounts of money to do what was once considered menial or easy work

Jobs like this in domestic service or healthcare often came with accommodation and sometimes board.

Even if that's in a dormitory, it would still often be better accommodation than you would be able to afford on the market. The level of comfort relative to others of your class would be enormous.

Nowadays, those affordability problems that everyone is experiencing are compounded for people in roles that would previously have been live-in positions.

Another issue is that the job of a healthcare assistant is not only poorly paid, but is also not part of a career path. Previously, much of this work would have been done by (often trainee or junior) nurses, with all the prestige and potential that that career brings with it.

Re:Ask HN: What's a promising area to work on? by bluGill on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @11:46AM (#21335804)
There are refuges from poor countries that would love to live in my parent's basement and take care of them. They would think it is great - a kitchen of their own (not all houses have this, it happens my parent's house does), bathroom with a tub, a private bedroom, plus a living room that is larger than the mud hut they lived in back home. Of course they will discover in winter that they won't be going outside so that much space is small, but there is also the rest of the house that is semi-available. Of course everybody has a different house and so situations are different. However if you are reading this odds are you have (or could afford if you wanted) a house large enough to have spare space for servants.

Legally though you can't do it. You can't import such people easily. Even if you could, you have to pay them a wage that is affordable despite also providing room and board. I'm not sure this is a bad thing overall, but even though for the world's poorest just room and board, and $1/day would be a lifestyle improvement.

Re:Ask HN: What's a promising area to work on? by 50korangutang on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @06:20AM (#21333098)
This is a good thing and is a mark of progress, it seems you're arguing we should lower wages and living/working standards so that people are willing to do these jobs. This is close to a backward and selfish line of thinking that 'people should be willing to do things for me for less money'.

Why should essential jobs like caring for people be paid so little compated to jobs that provide little value to society like banking and PR? It's essentially the 'Bullshit jobs' argument made by David Graeber

Re:Ask HN: What's a promising area to work on? by sdenton4 on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @11:39PM (#21330833)
"Now, the willingness to work (and therefore the salary curve) has inverted..."

And surely this is a sign of people's laziness, rather than increasing costs of living relative to wages... Rent, student debt, randomly allocated medical debt, ageing parents with caretakers to pay... These things add up. Minimum wage work just moves you backwards; probably better to take a risk on further schooling to get something that pays realistically.

Re:Ask HN: What's a promising area to work on? by musgrove on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @09:45PM (#21330300)
"Centuries ago, if you could live comfortably (not amazingly, but not be in the street), just by showering a few old people and cleaning up poo, you'd have people lining up round the block to do it."

I'm not sure you'd need to go back centuries. There were times in the 1900's that was the case. And in some countries, other that the USA, it still is.

Re:Ask HN: What's a promising area to work on? by robbya on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @06:39PM (#21329174)
> Telemedicine will improve as more technically adept people age.

There's a little bit of user blaming in that statement (not being critical, just thinking out loud). Dealing with the elderly and folks who are less familiar with tech is an interesting design space.

Does anyone know design patterns that specifically seek to improve the experience for non-tech savy elderly?

Re:Ask HN: What's a promising area to work on? by SkyPuncher on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @03:37AM (#21332112)
I think user blame is a bit of an under simplification.

In this case, the issue stems beyond just the product. In many cases, these elderly households don't even have internet access as it's simply not something that's needed for their daily life.

No matter how good a telemedicine product is, it's nearly impossible to deliver without the underlying infrastructure (and desire for that infrastructure) in place.

For the elderly with internet connection, telemedicine is already a pretty simple user experience.

Re:Ask HN: What's a promising area to work on? by charliepark on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @12:00PM (#21335944)
This is a good article on design patterns and considerations when designing for older users: https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2015/02/designing-digital-t...
Re:Ask HN: What's a promising area to work on? by throwaway5752 on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @04:44PM (#21328321)
Yes. You can look at US Cellular, of all companies, as one on the "bleeding edge" of part of this trend.

You have people aging into a technological world built by kids with hands and fingers that work well, eyes that work well, and little cognitive decline.

This industry is garbage for the disabled and old. Just garbage. Trying running a WCAG compliance check on any arbitrary piece of software. For most of you, that means looking up WCAG. For 99%+ of you, you will have trouble even finding tools for the products you work on.

Someone will make a lot of money with a much simpler cell phone with a lot of white glove handling of security and OS updates, and just a curated set of apps. Apps designed for these populations and their unique problems (but sensitive to their age related disabilities) will be big, too.

edit: for example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14748929 "Iris recognition as a biometric method after cataract surgery." and https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19604439 "The use of computer touch-screen technology for the collection of patient-reported outcome data in rheumatoid arthritis: comparison with standardized paper questionnaires"

Re:Ask HN: What's a promising area to work on? by ctraynor on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @04:56PM (#21328431)
The problem with some of this is product-market-timing fit.

There are huge problems to solve that add value. But some of these businesses are very old school.

You can't force someone to digitise if they don't want to.

There are a lot of barriers to entry, and there can be lengthy sales cycles.

Someone will definitely get there and be hugely succesful, I'm just not sure if the time is now or if we'll need to wait years.

Re:Ask HN: What's a promising area to work on? by 8ytecoder on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @02:02PM (#21326768)
A tool for children to remotely manage parents' phones, tablets, routers and (may be) computers would be nice to have. My parents are not very tech savvy and when something goes wrong getting someone to fix it takes forever. If I had remote access I'd do it in just a few minutes.
Re:Ask HN: What's a promising area to work on? by lotsofpulp on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @03:13PM (#21327454)
My solution to this is loading them up with iOS and macOS devices, enabling iCloud backup, and having them live near an Apple store for hardware issues.

They can click on all the shady links they want, but I haven’t had to field tech support in a long time.

Re:Ask HN: What's a promising area to work on? by yellowapple on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @09:02PM (#21330071)
I've had pretty good experiences with handing them Linux machines (usually openSUSE + Xfce). There's an initial adjustment period as they figure out "okay the orange fox replaces the blue e", but quite a few people I know who made that switch are now at least reasonably productive. Chromebooks are another option here that I've seen be pretty successful, and they have the advantage of being absurdly cheap.

The absolute biggest bang for the buck: ad-blockers. Fewer sketchy links to click on, and absolutely nothing to relearn.

Re:Ask HN: What's a promising area to work on? by Ruthette on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @01:14AM (#21331300)
Seniors minds are less flexible to change so a consistently exact OS with exact functionality is best even it looks out of date to us. I had to hire someone to exactly recreate my mom's desktop and and find and install her 15 yo apps. This kept her going with searches and email for another five years when otherwise she would just have given up. Also in-home tech people who are very, very patient. I'd happily pay $100/hour not to do that.
Re:Ask HN: What's a promising area to work on? by tunesmith on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @06:03PM (#21328908)
This is tough for us too - we were even thinking of buying two iPads connected to their Cloud account, just so whenever they locked themselves out, we could mail them the one we have while they mail us the broken one.

The biggest problem for iPads is every time there's a software update, it asks you to set a keypad password. They set one, thinking they are guessing one they've already set, they don't remember it, and they get locked out every time.

Re:Ask HN: What's a promising area to work on? by bcyn on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @06:20PM (#21329034)
> The biggest problem for iPads is every time there's a software update, it asks you to set a keypad password.

I don't think that's true. What iOS version did they experience this on?

Re:Ask HN: What's a promising area to work on? by ilkan on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @10:02PM (#21330377)
Same. I got mine a used iphone4 mainly for whatsapp a few years ago and it was hard doing phone support for an 80+ year old. Harder when she can't describe the ux, interfaces aren't standard (back vs cancel vs < vs x), and in modern design few things stand out as tappable/clickable. Remote access would've been fantastic.
Re:Ask HN: What's a promising area to work on? by omarchowdhury on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @02:39PM (#21327125)
LogMeIn, Teamviewer, VNC..?
Re:Ask HN: What's a promising area to work on? by TheMerovingian on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @01:57PM (#21326707)
There are a number of companies already starting on this. One in particular that comes to mind is Reliq Tech, which does remote monitoring for patients. Currently they have pilots with native reserves, where doctors are hundreds of kilometres away from their patients.