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Re:Why Did ArchLinux Embrace Systemd? (2016) by LinuxBender on Monday October 21, 2019 @12:20PM (#21314065)
For me it was the scope creep. Systemd is turning "init" into a framework of all the vulnerable and bad ideas that Microsoft moved away from after Win95/XP. binfmt mount, intercepting and changing the behavior of DNS, polkit implementation, changing user authentication, so much more than I could put here. There are many desktop concepts being shimmed into servers that are simply not appropriate for a lean mean web machine.

The good bits that systemd brought into the mainstream such as cgroups and lxc do not require systemd. They can be implemented independently. The watchdog timers and unit files were not a new concept either and did not require systemd.

Re:Why Did ArchLinux Embrace Systemd? (2016) by thayne on Monday October 21, 2019 @12:31PM (#21314210)
> Systemd is turning "init" into a framework of ...

This is conflating the systemd project and they systemd init system. Most of the things you mention are seperate systems (systemd-resolved,logind, polkit, etc.) that are part of the systemd project and interoperate with the systemd init system, but are not part of the init system itself.

Re:Why Did ArchLinux Embrace Systemd? (2016) by LinuxBender on Monday October 21, 2019 @04:28PM (#21316925)
Agreed and the conflation is somewhat intentional. When you install a system, you get all of that. Custom kickstart files can strip away some of it. For the longest time, you would get polkit regardless. The rpm spec file was changed about a year or two ago so that it can be removed if someone did not exclude it specifically. To be fair, each OS maintainer is including or excluding bits of systemd in the default configurations, so that is not entirely systemd's responsibility. Every year systemd appears to be subsuming more and more system functionality.
Re:Why Did ArchLinux Embrace Systemd? (2016) by barbecue_sauce on Monday October 21, 2019 @12:28PM (#21314170)
Is it correct to even say that systemd "brought" cgroups and lxc? They seem like fairly independent projects.
Re:Why Did ArchLinux Embrace Systemd? (2016) by simcop2387 on Monday October 21, 2019 @12:32PM (#21314220)
systemd did bring them mainstream, but yea cgroups were around for years before systemd was a thing. But they were mostly independently managed by some small daemons that did things based off rules and other things like that mostly. Systemd changed how they got used, primarily because multiple management systems working with them tends to cause issues, but using them for low impact isolation and tracking of daemons automatically really turned them from something you'd independently setup to something that brings a lot of utility for just about every use-case everywhere.

You can still use cgroups independently with systemd, but it's recommended that you use a service and the delegate option to have systemd create a cgroup hierarchy and also know that it shouldn't mess with it after creating it. This lets you have your cake and eat it too if you have a case that systemd doesn't handle (I'm working on a setup with this myself for a coding sandbox setup).

Re:Why Did ArchLinux Embrace Systemd? (2016) by djsumdog on Monday October 21, 2019 @12:41PM (#21314316)
I think Docker had a bigger influence on cgroup use than systemd.
Re:Why Did ArchLinux Embrace Systemd? (2016) by aidenn0 on Monday October 21, 2019 @03:11PM (#21316053)
I disagree because everybody who uses Ubuntu is using systemd, but only a fraction of them use docker.
Re:Why Did ArchLinux Embrace Systemd? (2016) by geggam on Monday October 21, 2019 @03:32PM (#21316281)
Ubuntu uses snaps heavily bringing cgroups to play.
Re:Why Did ArchLinux Embrace Systemd? (2016) by LinuxBender on Monday October 21, 2019 @01:54PM (#21315197)
I agree with you and edited my wording.