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Re:Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls by spion on Friday October 18, 2019 @08:49AM (#21290919)
This doesn't help actually fix the problem, because you have equivalent problems with irresponsible production of plant based food (soil erosion, destruction of entire ecosystems and replacing them with plant fields and so on).

If we keep attacking the problem from the wrong angle, we won't ever have a good solution.

Re:Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls by vfc1 on Friday October 18, 2019 @09:00AM (#21290980)
> irresponsible production of plant based food (soil erosion, destruction of entire ecosystems and replacing them with plant fields

In most cases, this is actually done to create feed crops like soy and corn. Most of the agricultural fields in the world are used to feed animals either used for slaughter or for dairy and not to feed people directly.

Feeding the same amount of people directly instead of feeding animals and then eating them could be done with a fraction of the agricultural resources.

Dairy production is actually one of the most environmentally impactful things that we do, if we want to go that route.

Re:Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls by vonmoltke on Friday October 18, 2019 @09:23AM (#21291134)
> In most cases, this is actually done to create feed crops like soy and corn.

Soy and corn, particularly corn, have many uses beyond animal feed.

> Most of the agricultural fields in the world are used to feed animals either used for slaughter or for dairy and not to feed people directly.

Please support that statement.

Re:Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls by vfc1 on Friday October 18, 2019 @09:38AM (#21291238)
Here is a source: https://www.globalagriculture.org/report-topics/meat-and-ani...

> Livestock is the world's largest user of land resources, with pasture and arable land dedicated to the production of feed representing almost 80% of the total agricultural land. One-third of global arable land is used to grow feed, while 26% of the Earth's ice-free terrestrial surface is used for grazing.

Re:Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls by spion on Friday October 18, 2019 @10:58AM (#21291920)
Pasture land isn't really usable for anything else, and the level of destruction caused by converting land to monocrops far exceeds that of animal grazing.
Re:Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls by vfc1 on Friday October 18, 2019 @01:16PM (#21293177)
A lot of pasture land, for example in Amazonia has actually been created by systematic deforestation, also in Europe, which was deforested a couple of centuries ago.

So a lot of that land could be used for reforesting. And if it would be so simple to use that land to raise cattle, why are there factory farms then?

It sounds cheaper to raise the cows on grass which is free food, unlike rations. Clearly the amount of meat produced that way is not sufficient for the demand.

Re:Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls by vonmoltke on Friday October 18, 2019 @12:08PM (#21292550)
Non-arable land cannot be used to feed people directly, by definition. That makes your original statement misleading at best.
Re:Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls by SuoDuanDao on Friday October 18, 2019 @09:16AM (#21291079)
agree 100%. I don't know of any truly sustainable farms that don't involve some nonhuman animals in the value chain. The problem is not that industrial farming is less efficient when incorporating animals, it's that we're calculating efficiency in terms of fossil fuels in > Calories out.

There are all sorts of alternatives to that paradigm, but none allow us to compare a single metric for both. The nature of the debate reminds me of the apocryphal drunk, looking for his car keys below the streetlamp even though he knows he didn't lose them there.