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Re:New bill ensures Jailtime for CEOs that lie by kerkeslager on Thursday October 17, 2019 @11:31AM (#21283121)
Good.

In a more general sense, we as a society need to take a long, hard look at limited liability. We cannot call for more personal responsibility in society with one hand while with the other hand letting malicious decision-makers walk away with their personal fortunes while workers and shareholders take on the cost of their actions. People need to be held accountable for their actions, and this is especially true for people in positions of power whose actions can affect millions of people.

Re:New bill ensures Jailtime for CEOs that lie by c3534l on Thursday October 17, 2019 @12:55PM (#21283976)
I'm not sure you understand what limited liability means. Limited liability doesn't mean that the CEO can't be put in prison or Equifax liquidated. It means that after Equifax is liquidated, if there's still debts to be paid, I can't go into a private individuals 401(k) plan, see that they held stock in Equifax, then demand they empty their savings account to pay the debts for “their" company that they theoretically "own" in the form of stock. Limited liability doesn't mean corporations don't have to follow the law or can't be sued.
Re:New bill ensures Jailtime for CEOs that lie by leetcrew on Thursday October 17, 2019 @11:38AM (#21283188)
on the flip side, limited liability allows smaller players to enter the market without necessarily risking their entire life savings.
Re:New bill ensures Jailtime for CEOs that lie by kerkeslager on Thursday October 17, 2019 @12:02PM (#21283438)
So maybe the "long hard look at limited liability" I suggested concludes that limited liability applies only to small players entering the market.

Nobody is confused about why limited liability exists, so I don't think it needs to be brought up every time someone points out the problems with it. It generally comes across as just trying to shut down the conversation, and refuse to admit there are very large downsides to limited liability.

Re:New bill ensures Jailtime for CEOs that lie by leetcrew on Thursday October 17, 2019 @12:57PM (#21283992)
what "very large downsides” are you talking about? the possibility that a company might be unable to repay a debt? do you also think we need to take a long hard look at bankruptcy? to me, the fact that I can hold a few thousand dollars in stocks without risking everything I own seems pretty good. I'm not sure how you could change it in a way that wouldn't shift the balance of power even more towards the well-capitalized.
Re:New bill ensures Jailtime for CEOs that lie by kerkeslager on Thursday October 17, 2019 @02:48PM (#21285191)
Ideally, limited liability wouldn't apply to people making decisions for the company: if a CEO decides, for example, not to recall deadly exploding cars because of a cost/revenue analysis, the CEO's 401k should not be off limits as a source of funds for a settlement against the company.

I don't know why you assume you benefit from this not being the case: when Ford was sued for the Pinto, shareholders of Ford lost money which they wouldn't have lost if the decision makers had paid more of the settlement.

One possible way to regulate this is related to voting and non-voting shares. If you want to invest in a company without taking on liability, you can invest in non-voting shares--since you can't make any decisions for the company, you can't be held liable if the company decides to do something wrong. But you shouldn't be able to take part in the decision making of a company without also taking responsibility if you decide to do something wrong.

Re:New bill ensures Jailtime for CEOs that lie by ken on Thursday October 17, 2019 @12:50PM (#21283920)
That may be true, but I see it in practice being used by CEOs whose annual salary is far bigger than my life savings, and who still walk away with Golden Parachutes.

If the goal is specifically to assist startups, then let's find some way to codify that. It sounds like one of those cases of unintended consequences. Is it trying to help out the little guy? It sure looks like it's helping the rich stay rich.

Re:New bill ensures Jailtime for CEOs that lie by leetcrew on Thursday October 17, 2019 @01:04PM (#21284066)
in general, employees are not held financially responsible for mistakes they make at work unless they are being criminally negligent/malicious. a CEO is just a very well paid employee. unless I'm mistaken, limited liability is about what owners of a company are liable for.

the goal of limited liability is not specifically to help startups, it's a common law concept that predates "startups" by hundreds of years. I would argue that it helps the little guy much more than the extremely wealthy. I personally could not invest at all if I couldn't limit my losses to the amount of money I put in. people with millions of dollars can take on a lot more risk without becoming homeless if one or two holdings goes belly-up.

Re:New bill ensures Jailtime for CEOs that lie by kerkeslager on Thursday October 17, 2019 @02:52PM (#21285233)
There's a pretty big difference between "My holdings went belly up because our process wasn't efficient enough" and "My holdings went belly up because I was caught giving cancer to kids". Limited liability may be intended to protect in the former case, but it also protects in the latter case.

Part of the difficulty here is that ownership confers some power to shareholders (the ability to vote in some corporate matters) but doesn't confer any responsibility for those decisions. For the average investor, this is a good thing: I don't have time to vote in every shareholder election I hold the right to vote in, so it doesn't make sense to hold me liable for elections I didn't vote in.

A possible solution here is non-voting shares. Limited liability could easily apply only to those holding non-voting shares, and people could have the ability to convert voting shares into non-voting shares if they don't intend to vote in shareholder elections.

Re:New bill ensures Jailtime for CEOs that lie by jeiro0 on Thursday October 17, 2019 @11:48AM (#21283295)
On the flip side it takes their skin out of the game.

This is some helicopter parenting nonsense. I want to play too but not get hurt.

If one wants to be a service provider, in a free market, reliant on customers who in turn rely on them, shoulder all the risk.

On the flip side other nations use universal social services to insure the general public if cushioned from complete failure.

Anyone getting into business should really feel the burden. And big corp leadership should feel an even bigger burden for being too big to fail. They want to be that big they should be ready for a hard fall.

I don’t owe political deference to corporate. They get my time and that’s good enough.