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Re:Flash Memory Wear Killing Older Teslas Due to Excessive D... by JohnJamesRambo on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @10:09AM (#21258486)
My family’s ownership outcomes strongly suggest getting a Toyota. I’m driving my Dad’s old 2001 Tundra pickup with 350k miles on the same engine. I was amazed when I bought it from him how every switch still worked, the original AC still blew cold. This is not my normal experience buying used cars from other manufacturers. Usually at about 150k miles they turn into a clown car of various systems failing. Someone put thought into each component on the truck and how it would age.
Re:Flash Memory Wear Killing Older Teslas Due to Excessive D... by kipchak on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @10:23AM (#21258668)
Generally speaking Toyota is conservative in terms of rolling out new technologies and sticks with what's proven. For example the base Camry has a 2.5L engine and 8 speed auto transmission and the base Accord a 1.5 turbo and 10 speed auto. Toyota also goes more in depth terms of QA and testing on individual parts than others.

From an article on the Toyota - BMW Supra/M4 collaboration,

"...BMW couldn’t believe how extensive some of our quality and efficiency studies were as parts came into shape one by one. We would take every bit down to a fastener or rivet, and put it through our stringent quality control and a dozen other testing, we’d ship thousands of parts back to Japan for analysis. That is normal to us."

http://club4ag.com/chief-engineer-tetsuya-tada-reveals-the-a...

Re:Flash Memory Wear Killing Older Teslas Due to Excessive D... by tdurden on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @11:16AM (#21259318)
> From an article on the Toyota - BMW Supra/M4 collaboration

I think you mean Z4

Re:Flash Memory Wear Killing Older Teslas Due to Excessive D... by cardiffspaceman on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @06:37PM (#21264765)
That article seems to be more balanced shall we say, in terms of what was normal for which team. Toyota's engineering seems to be closer to production while BMW's seems to be closer to design.

* I almost started to think if they had an infinite budget funding to the task of design. *

And it seemed like the opinion from Toyota was that Toyota has a body style in mind at first but BMW lets the body style be influenced its contents.

BMW's fundamental difference in approach was that they wanted to design a package, and from there they would naturally evolve a shape and size of the body from that packaging, a functionally oriented goal. ... Our company (Toyota) with my tenure and experience, the focus was always design elements being the priority. We would first spend a lot of time on the shape and appeal of the car from visual perspective ...

But let the article speak for itself. I kept my quotes short.

Re:Flash Memory Wear Killing Older Teslas Due to Excessive D... by rasz on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @11:50AM (#21271703)
It might of changed directions recently. 2020 BMW 2 Series is a series of cut&paste design cues from 2019 Toyota Supra.
Re:Flash Memory Wear Killing Older Teslas Due to Excessive D... by antisthenes on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @11:11AM (#21259252)
You know how rigorous it is when even the Germans are surprised.
Re:Flash Memory Wear Killing Older Teslas Due to Excessive D... by jcims on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @11:16AM (#21259313)
For performance/handling yes, for reliability not so much.
Re:Flash Memory Wear Killing Older Teslas Due to Excessive D... by jackhack on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @12:28PM (#21260296)
This has been my experience with German cars (Mercedes, BMW) precisely : They are great to drive, but terrible to own.
Re:Flash Memory Wear Killing Older Teslas Due to Excessive D... by LeonM on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @10:21AM (#21258644)
Toyota has been known for their reliability for a long time now. I can attest that with my Lexus, it's 13 years old now and in the 7 years that I have owned it, it has had zero defects. Last year it even got recalled (12 years after production) because the fuel filter might not have been installed correctly in the factory, so they replaced it for free.

That said: I still do every scheduled maintenance, which helps tremendously. The main problem with older vehicles is that people stop following the recommended services as the car gets older. Which is of course the opposite of what you should do with an old car.

Re:Flash Memory Wear Killing Older Teslas Due to Excessive D... by celticmusic on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @10:32AM (#21258792)
> That said: I still do every scheduled maintenance, which helps tremendously. The main problem with older vehicles is that people stop following the recommended services as the car gets older. Which is of course the opposite of what you should do with an old car.

exactly this. I've been driving my Toyota for 15 years, never had a problem with it. But I still, to this day, have it maintained. The cost of that maintenance is pennies compared to purchasing a new car. If you can afford it, it's foolish not to.

Re:Flash Memory Wear Killing Older Teslas Due to Excessive D... by ryanmercer on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @11:15AM (#21259300)
> Last year it even got recalled (12 years after production)

Toyota is great about that. There was something in the steering column that needed replaced on my '95 T100 and and 15 years later they sent a notice offering to fix it for free. I never did get it replaced, it was a 'we gotta keep the vehicle for a couple of days' and we'd been driving it since it was brand new without issue so I decided to keep on since the risk seemed incredibly minimal.

Re:Flash Memory Wear Killing Older Teslas Due to Excessive D... by rasz on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @01:22PM (#21261082)
Re:Flash Memory Wear Killing Older Teslas Due to Excessive D... by ryanmercer on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @03:50PM (#21262899)
Find me a vehicle manufacturer currently in business that hasn't been sued and sells more than 100,000 cars a year.

I see the .au domains and while I don't know how stuff is in Australia, the United States it looks like more than 10,000 class action lawsuits are filed a year [1]. Hell I just got an email about one this weekend where apparently Audible was sued for not making it more clear that credits expired if you didn't use them... I mean, as long as I can remember (and I've been a member over a decade) Audible has explicitly stated that you can only accumulate so many unused credits and that if you cancel any outstanding ones are nullified. Lawyers make BANK if they win a class action.

So did they get sued and then issue a recall, yes it looks that way but in the case of my recall it was voluntary and involved no lawsuit that I know of. They found some defect that happened under extremely specific (and unrealistic for 99.99% of drivers) conditions and issued a voluntary recall. When I got the notice the Truck was 15 or even 16 years old and we hadn't had it at a dealership in 2 address (I'd never had it at a dealership under my name) yet they found me to tell me and then sent the notice every few months for a couple of years until I notified them I no longer owned the vehicle per the instructions in the mailings.

[1] https://gettingthedealthrough.com/area/82/jurisdiction/23/cl...

Re:Flash Memory Wear Killing Older Teslas Due to Excessive D... by celticmusic on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @10:30AM (#21258766)
When I was in HS I had a friend whose family had this old beat up orange smallbed truck from the 70's (this was mid 90's). That thing was beat all to hell, ugly as sin. It was used as a truck.

But you know what? That damned thing ran like a beauty. It literally ran until their son started driving it and wrecked it.

I was impressed enough with it, that when it was time for me to purchase a vehicle, I went with Toyota. 15 years later and that thing has never left me on the side of the road, not even once (I do keep up maintenance on it). I'm considering purchasing another vehicle because it's time to get something larger, and when I do it will most likely be Toyota.

I've seen so many people say that at 200k miles Toyota is just getting warmed up, and there's some truth to it. You obviously have to keep up with maintenance on the vehicle, but if you do I can guarantee it will treat you right. And I'm not saying other manufacturers are any worse, but I am saying Toyota is a great vehicle to buy.

Re:Flash Memory Wear Killing Older Teslas Due to Excessive D... by ryanmercer on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @11:11AM (#21259254)
I was driving a '67 C10 in 2003-2004 and it still ran perfect. It needed a frame off restoration as the bed was severely damaged from decades of use as a farm truck and removing the bed alone was more work than I wanted to do (at least a 4 man job) so I ended up selling it for about 2 grand more than I had bought it for.

Then I took my father's '95 Toyota t100 from my mother when she got a new vehicle, drove it until 2013 and gave it to my half brother. It has 130k or so when I gave it to him and aside from having a really squeaky bed was in great shape, the only remotely major work I'd had to do was replace the fuel pump bracket due to rust which involved dropping the gas tank (2 man job). The ball joints and pitmans needed replaced in the next 10k miles probably but that's just a special tool rental and an afternoon sitting on the ground.

Then take my 2013 impala... I've got 68k miles on it now. I've had a wire harness malfunction which would randomly trigger ABS and traction control while you were driving, I've had to replace the evap sensor THREE TIMES and it is now throwing codes again, the factory rotors have already had to be replaced due to severe rust, any time humidity gets above 70% or so it throws another engine code because of more fuel/emissions sensors.... pinches bridge of nose

Re:Flash Memory Wear Killing Older Teslas Due to Excessive D... by vonmoltke on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @11:58AM (#21259868)
> Then take my 2013 impala... [...] I've had a wire harness malfunction which would randomly trigger ABS and traction control while you were driving

I had that exact same problem in a 2002 Buick. I can't believe GM hadn't fixed that yet.

Re:Flash Memory Wear Killing Older Teslas Due to Excessive D... by ryanmercer on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @12:00PM (#21259905)
Sounds about right, the evap sensor issue I keep having seems to span about 15 years of cars and a LOT of models. What really chapped my ass was that 'wiring isn't covered under warranty' um hi, your stupid wiring keeps triggering ABS and traction control, that's dangerous.
Re:Flash Memory Wear Killing Older Teslas Due to Excessive D... by BluePen7 on Thursday October 17, 2019 @09:15PM (#21287825)
The other day I was visiting my sister and she asked me to scan the codes on her 2014 Silverado.

When I put the key in the ignition position for on (without starting it) so I could read the codes, it complained that the battery was low, and to start the truck soon.

Oddly enough, my dad's 2001 Silverado always had the same problem (just a red battery light back then), 2 years of ownership so far and it's battery is still fine, same warning right before you start it that goes away once it's on.

When I told this to her she told me her old Jimmy did the same thing.

The code her truck was throwing was coincidentally the same code as my dad's 2001 truck, about the evap canister.

I was flabbergasted, 13 years age difference and this truck was no different.

Re:Flash Memory Wear Killing Older Teslas Due to Excessive D... by rasz on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @01:29PM (#21261163)
15 years does indeed sound like typical GM timeframe for a fix, as evidenced by Northstar disaster.
Re:Flash Memory Wear Killing Older Teslas Due to Excessive D... by benj111 on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @12:44PM (#21260504)
UK Top Gear tried to destroy a hilux a few years back. They left it in the sea, set it on top of a tower block as it was blown up, and a few other things I cant remember. It still ran (to a degree) when they gave up and put it on display in their studio.
Re:Flash Memory Wear Killing Older Teslas Due to Excessive D... by rbanffy on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @11:59AM (#21271826)
A friend of mine used to tell a story of a Mercedes Benz car he knew from the German embassy in Cairo. When they first went there, it was their car. It had a crack on the engine head that leaked a little bit of oil, just enough to make the crack obvious.

When they went back, the car was still there. Still being used day in, day out, for 10 years. It still had the crack on the engine.

Re:Flash Memory Wear Killing Older Teslas Due to Excessive D... by tyfon on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @12:57PM (#21260712)
It highly depends on which Toyota you pick.

RAV4 for instance is plagued with faults while my 2013 Avensis ran quite ok the first 90000 kilometres I drove it before getting a tesla.

It did have to change brakes, a spring in one of the keys failed and the open/close window button on the passenger side broke. It also rusted under the chrome strips..

But compared to other cars I think it did quite well :)

Re:Flash Memory Wear Killing Older Teslas Due to Excessive D... by toomuchtodo on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @12:59PM (#21260745)
Certain Tundra, Tacoma, and Sequoia frames have rust issues so bad, Toyota settled for billions of dollars.

https://autoweek.com/article/recalls/toyota-will-settle-truc...

Re:Flash Memory Wear Killing Older Teslas Due to Excessive D... by wasdfff on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @01:05PM (#21260838)
Happened to my uncle and toyota put a brand new frame on a 10 year old truck for free.
Re:Flash Memory Wear Killing Older Teslas Due to Excessive D... by anderspitman on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @01:47PM (#21261407)
Our '91 Tacoma (simply called SR5 back then) made it well past 200k miles and only stopped then because it got caught in a garage fire a couple years ago and melted. Loved that rig