News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The Making of the American Gulag by nradov on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @02:25PM (#21206264)
Size of a generation only matters if they actually vote.
Re:The Making of the American Gulag by Ididntdothis on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @03:09PM (#21206752)
Voting by itself is pretty useless if your only choices are two corrupt parties. You actually need to influence the parties.
Re:The Making of the American Gulag by PhasmaFelis on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @03:33PM (#21207029)
There was a thing a few years ago where a Russian political troll ring was exposed, and the big focus of their messaging to left-wingers was "there's no point in voting because both parties are equally bad."

What you said is what they want you to think. Lord knows both major parties in the US have serious problems, but if you think they're indistinguishable, you're not paying attention.

Re:The Making of the American Gulag by B1FF_PSUVM on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @03:55PM (#21207260)
The late Gore Vidal (not a Russian) wrote "There is only one party in the United States, the Property Party … and it has two right wings: Republican and Democrat." (https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7320654-there-is-only-one-p...)

He used to hang out with the 1960s Democratic Party mighty, even ran in an election. His essays are pretty sharp.

Re:The Making of the American Gulag by PhasmaFelis on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @04:09PM (#21207421)
Just for one example, one party has a recent history of seeking equal rights for LGBT people, and the other has a history of actively blocking same. Try telling a trans person that the party in power doesn't matter.

I never said that the Democrats are perfect. They're not even all that good. As often as not, they're the lesser evil. That doesn't mean it's rational to stay home and let the greater evil win.

Re:The Making of the American Gulag by deogeo on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @04:11PM (#21207450)
They're indistinguishable in quite a few matters - the Bush, Obama, and Trump administrations all continued the PATRIOT act, warrantles wiretapping of US citizens, all the foreign wars the US got itself involved in, and none of them closed Guantanamo, reduced immigration, broke up any monopolies, or even slowed their mergers. And these are the topics on which they made wildly different promises. The only stand-out was Trump stopping the TPP.

I'll grant you there are other topics on which they differ, but depending on what you look at, your options quickly blur together.

Re:The Making of the American Gulag by PhasmaFelis on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @04:32PM (#21207699)
See my other comment. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21207421 If you care about queer rights at all, they're like night and day. There's also clear differences on abortion rights and freedom of (and from) religion.

I don't disagree with anything you said, either. It sucks, and I said so. People are reacting like I said the Democrats were nearly perfect, and I'm not sure how anyone got that from what I actually said.

Re:The Making of the American Gulag by nooyurrsdey on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @02:29PM (#21206323)
I think the point was that older generations tend to vote, so millenials will vote and assume power in 20 years.
Re:The Making of the American Gulag by at-fates-hands on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @02:58PM (#21206646)
Most don't vote now, which is one of the primary reasons why Trump was elected.

Sure, they swamp social media with their anger, demonstrate, disrupt conservative speaking engagements, burn and vandalize private property and call for violence in the streets and revolution but have never really voted in huge numbers:

In a number of other key battleground states, such as Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, it looks like millennials didn't show up at the polls in the same levels they did for President Obama, and that was a problem for Democrats.

The millennial coalition Obama created just didn't translate to Clinton, despite the Beyonce and Katy Perry concerts.

In many of these states, Clinton still won the young vote, but her margin of victory was substantially smaller. In Florida, it was 16 percentage points less than President Obama's; Wisconsin, 20 percentage points smaller; and Pennsylvania, 19 percentage points less.

And I believe most younger voters once they have to pay taxes, raise a family, and start building their retirement and saving for their kids college, become more Conservative and less "progressive" or Liberal.

Re:The Making of the American Gulag by klank on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @03:08PM (#21206744)
> And I believe most younger voters once they have to pay taxes, raise a family, and start building their retirement and saving for their kids college, become more Conservative and less "progressive" or Liberal.

Is that accurate? It's conventional wisdom but I've never seen it convincingly demonstrated.

Re:The Making of the American Gulag by rayiner on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @04:03PM (#21207348)
It’s extremely well demonstrated through cohort studies. Millennials are no more progressive (and may be more conservative) than boomers were at the same age: https://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-millenn...

Of course, some of the issues change. Gay marriage is rapidly becoming a bipartisan consensus (45% of republicans support it, more than Democrats did 20 years ago). Other issues, like abortion, have not changed. Still others have changed in the opposite direction, like the gun rights: https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/o....

Re:The Making of the American Gulag by klank on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @06:02PM (#21208652)
Skimmed, so I apologize if I missed something, but that isn't what we were discussing though. That's comparing two generations and their self-identification.

What I was asking about is the assertion that as a person ages they become more conservative. Comparing generational differences won't directly answer that question.

Re:The Making of the American Gulag by rayiner on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @06:30PM (#21208875)
We don’t have data on what millennials will believe 20 years from now. What we do know is that baby boomers are much more conservative than millennials are now, but were no more conservative and possibly where more liberal back when they were the age millennials are today. So we can infer that millennials, as a group, got more conservative as they aged.

Of course, that doesn’t mean that any given person got more conservative as they aged. But most people must have done so, because the group as a whole did.

Of course this is, as you say, based on self identification. But conservative and liberal are best described in terms of self identification, because they’re relative terms. As recently as the 1990s, a “conservative” view of the family would have meant two parents of the same race. Today, that wouldn’t be a conservative viewpoint, but a far right or reactionary viewpoint. Given how quickly the acceptance of gay marriage has accelerated (much faster, after Obergefell, than the acceptance of mixed race marriage after Loving), a “conservative” view of family could soon be two people, regardless of sexual orientation. (And that doesn’t only move in one direction, either. In the 1960s, a “liberal” might have actually believed in government ownership of the means of production. Today, most “liberals” identify “socialism” as a strong welfare state within a free market framework.)

Re:The Making of the American Gulag by Clubber on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @03:16PM (#21206828)
I think the confusing part is he is viewing a person as either liberal or conservative as a whole. I, and I assume many people take liberal or conservative positions based on the policy, not as a denomination. Also, "liberal" and "conservative" mean different things to different people.

If someone were to ask me if I was liberal or conservative, I'd have to ask them, "for which policy?"

Re:The Making of the American Gulag by klank on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @06:13PM (#21208743)
Good point, it definitely perpetuates a false dichotomy.
Re:The Making of the American Gulag by antidaily on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @02:52PM (#21206582)
Right. It's not the size. It's how you use it.